Differences

This shows you the differences between two versions of the page.

--- techtalk:ih:carb01p [2019/09/08 23:54]
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hippysmack [Keihin Butterfly Carb Identification]
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-====== IH: Carburetor, Intake Manifold & Exhaust Systems - Sub-01P ======
+====== IH: Carburetor, Intake Manifold & Exhaust - Sub-01P ======
 \\
-===== Bendix Carb Identification =====
+\\
+====== Keihin Butterfly Carb Identification ======
 See also in the Sportsterpedia: \\
-  * [[techtalk:ih:carb01#bendix_zenith_i6p12_carb_1972-early_1976|Bendix basic carb information]]
+  * [[techtalk:ih:carb01#keihin_butterfly_or_non-cv_carb_late_1976-1987|Keihin butterfly Carb Basic Information]]
-  * [[techtalk:ih:carb01c|Bendix Carb Functions, Adjustments, Tuning]]
+  * [[techtalk:ih:carb01r|Keihin Butterfly Carb Function and Tuning]]
-There are a lot of Sportsters out there that do not have their original Bendix carb attached to them. \\
+{{:techtalk:ih:carb:kehien_butterfly_carb_1_by_racedvl.jpg?direct&400|}} ((photo by racedvl of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1791419)) {{:techtalk:ih:carb:kehien_butterfly_carb_2_by_racedvl.jpg?direct&400|}} ((photo by racedvl of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1791419)) \\
-Consequently, this page will try to bring to light at least some the differences in these carbs. \\
-One could say it's a blessing that Bendix carbs for Harleys will interchange. \\
-One could also say it's a curse. \\
-Bendix carbs for Sportsters were set up for Sportsters. \\
-Bendix carbs for other HD models were set up for the needs of those motors. \\
-Changing the jetting alone (on other intended model carbs) to Sportster specs may still not give the results intended. \\
-The 27155-72A Sportster carb has another number stamped into the ID pad (13732). \\
-This Bendix part number denotes a certain configuration carb body and / or internal parts. \\
-**Change Letters**: \\
-You may have noticed a letter beside the HD part number or it may be arbitrarily stamped in the ID pad away from the HD number. \\
-Carbs with changes made during the build phase had the change letter included at the end of the HD stamped part number. \\
-Carbs with changes made at the dealership (customer owned bikes) had the change letter stamped into the existing ID pad...somewhere. \\
-This explains the arbitrary location of some of the change letters. \\
-For example, an "A" stamped into the ID pad away from the HD part# is a Bendix modification letter, not a suffix letter to the HD part#. \\
-**Bendix model 13479**: \\
+|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:keihin_carb_1_by_freewheeler.jpg?direct&200|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:keihin_carb_2_by_freewheeler.jpg?direct&200|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:79_up_keihin_butterfly_carb_by_pan-shovel-head51-79.jpg?direct&300|}}|
-The model 13479 carb was used on FLP, FLH and FX model Harley Davidsons. \\
+{{:techtalk:ih:carb:keihin_butterfly_carb_1_by_sifty.jpg?direct&250|}} ((photo by sifty of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4294940#post4294940)) {{:techtalk:ih:carb:keihin_butterfly_carb_2_by_sifty.jpg?direct&250|}} ((photo by sifty of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4294940#post4294940)) {{:techtalk:ih:carb:keihin_butterfly_carb_3_by_sifty.jpg?direct&250|}} ((photo by sifty of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4294940#post4294940)) \\
-The letters A, B, C, D, E and F stamped near the basic Bendix part number (13479) are change letters. \\
-Meaning they denote certain changes made per carb model. \\
-The following changes are noted in Technical Service Bulletin (614A). ((HD TSB 614A dated April 14, 1971)) \\
+{{:techtalk:ih:carb:keihin_butterfly_carb_1_by_maritimer.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by maritimer of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=1920224)) {{:techtalk:ih:carb:keihin_butterfly_carb_2_by_maritimer.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by maritimer of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=1920224)) \\
-  * **Change for 13479A**:
-    * The float setting was changed from 1/8" to 3/16" to remedy a rich condition occurring at steady speeds.
-    * The clearance between the float tang and the wire clip on the needle decreased. \\ It should be .005"-.010" between the top of the tang and bottom of the portion of spring that hangs over the tang.
-  * **Change for 13479B**:
-    * A new choke valve has detents with a spring loaded plunger engaging the detents to provide positive positioning throughout the choking range.
-    * New part (27664-71 choke shaft replaces 27664-70.
-    * New part 27665-71 plunger added.
-    * 27666-71 plunger spring added.
-  * **Change for 13479C & 13479D**: \\ Changes were made to correct over-rich mixtures in the intermediate (off idle) speed range.
-    * A new idle jet has two .06mm holes instead of one .08mm hole near the screw end.
-      * New part (27725-71) idle jet has the letter 'A' stamped on the screw end and replaces 27723-71.
-      * The idle air bleed hole in the carb body was enlarged from 3.35mm to 3.60mm (app. 9/64: in diameter). \\ Idle jet (27725-71 must be used with the drilled out passage in this carb for proper carburetion. \\ Dealers could drill the bleed hole and stamp the change letter //if// there was a problem with the field unit's performance.
-      * The accelerator pump shaft had 2 additional holes to allow for an increase or decrease of quantity of fuel delivery. \\ Factory setting for the pin was the center hole.
-**Bendix model 13609 and 13731** \\
+====== 27029-88 ======
-There were three Bendix carburetors, designated in the parts catalogs, that were installed on Sportsters. \\
+Other numbers on body: (0695) and (F58A) (BH28)  for 88-89 FLT, FXR and SOFTAIL models (except Cal.) ((https://serviceinfo.harley-davidson.com/sip/service/procedure/5697/PDF/f52c2fcc-9daa-4115-a6f7-006df7a9d140/en_US?uid=f52c2fcc-9daa-4115-a6f7-006df7a9d140&time=1480204850000&baseUrl=%2Fcontent%2Fdocument%2Fview%3Fid%3D5697)) \\
-|Sportster \\ Year \\ Model|HD Part #|Bendix Part #|Venture \\ Size|No. of Idle \\ Discharge \\ Holes|Idle \\ Tube|
-|**E1972**|27155-72 ((1972,1973 HD Sportster Parts Catalog Supplements (99451-72), (99451-73) ))|13609A|38mm|3|(A) 27749-72|
-|:::|27155-72 ((1972,1973 HD Sportster Parts Catalog Supplements (99451-72), (99451-73) ))|13609B|38mm|3|(B) 27750-72|
-|**L1972-1974**|27155-72A ((1973, 1974 HD Sportster Parts Catalog Supplements (99451-73) (99451-74) ))|13731|38mm|4|:::|
-|**1975-Early 1976** \\ (also '71-'75 FX models)| 27155-72B ((1975 HD Sportster Parts Catalog Supplement (99451-75) )) ((1976 HD Sportster Parts Catalog Supplement (99451-76) )) ((1971-1984 HD FX Parts Catalog pg 35))|13731|38mm|4|integrated w / carb body \\ not for replacement|
-**Bendix model 13732** \\
+{{:techtalk:ih:carb:kehien_butterfly_carb_1_by_vwtopia.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by vwtopia of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1662810)) {{:techtalk:ih:carb:kehien_butterfly_carb_2_by_vwtopia.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by vwtopia of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1662810))  {{:techtalk:ih:carb:kehien_butterfly_carb_3_by_vwtopia.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by vwtopia of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1662810)) \\
-  * 27152-71A (13732) - 38mm, was reportedly factory installed on a '74 XLH delivered from the dealer in July 1974. ((The Doctor71 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2072203&page=2))
+====== 27026-88A ======
+Body casting  (0565) and (F59B) for 88-89 FLT, FXR and SOFTAIL models (Cal. and Swiss models only) ((https://serviceinfo.harley-davidson.com/sip/service/procedure/5697/PDF/f52c2fcc-9daa-4115-a6f7-006df7a9d140/en_US?uid=f52c2fcc-9daa-4115-a6f7-006df7a9d140&time=1480204850000&baseUrl=%2Fcontent%2Fdocument%2Fview%3Fid%3D5697)) \\
-**Other known Bendix ID information**: \\
-|HD Part #|Bendix Part #|Venture Size|No. of Idle \\ Discharge \\ Holes|
+{{:techtalk:ih:carb:27026-88a_keihin_by_tuanis.jpg?direct&200|}} ((photo by Tuanis of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2029663)) \\
-|27152-71 ((needspeed of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2072203&page=3))|  |36mm|
-|27152-71 ((Popgadget of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2071986))|13479A|36mm|3|
-|27152-71 ((savagegarden of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1903749))|13479E|36mm|
-|27152-71A ((The Doctor71 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2072203&page=2))|13732|38mm|
-|27152-72 ((needspeed of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2072203&page=3))|  |38mm|
-|27155-72B ((curiousgeorge of the XLFORUM))|  |36mm|
-|27155-72B ((DirtyHarry68 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2072203&page=2))|13731C|38mm|
-|Zenith \\ 13859A|Also has the word Andpro. \\ __And__rews __Pro__ducts used to sell a Bendix carb. No HD markings||
-|
-===== Venture Size =====
- The venturi size is cast into the venturi. ((needspeed of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2072203&page=3)) \\
-Looking in the carb from the air cleaner end, the numbers are on the venturi at 12:00 o'clock on the radiused entry.  \\
-They are small but every bendix should have the number stamped there. \\
-{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_venture_id_1_by_the_doctor71.jpg?direct&200|}} ((photo by The Doctor71 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2072203&page=3)) \\
 \\
-|  27155-72B (13731C), arbitrary 'C' ((photos by DirtyHarry68 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2072203&page=2))  ||
-|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_carb_7_by_dirtyharry68.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_carb_9_by_dirtyharry68.jpg?direct&300|}}|
-Both of these carbs are stamped 27152-71. \\
+\\
-One has a '36' and the other has a '38' stamped inside the venture. \\
-|  27152-71A (13732) - venturi stamped '38' ((photos by The Doctor71 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2072203&page=3)) ((http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2072203&page=2))  ||
-|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:72-74_bendix_idle_tube_location_by_the_doctor71_annotated_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_venture_id_2_by_the_doctor71.jpg?direct&300|}}|
-|  27152-71 (13479A) arbitrary 'A' - venturi stamped '36' ((photo by Popgadget of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2071986))  ||
-|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_carb_4_by_popgadget.jpg?direct&200|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_carb_5_by_popgadget.jpg?direct&170|}}|
-|  27152-71 (13479E) arbitrary 'E', adjustable jet  ((photos by savagegarden of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1903749))  ||  27152-71 (13479E) arbitrary 'E', \\ fixed jet, 36mm ((photo by savagegarden of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1903749))  |
-|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_carb_27152-71e_pic_2_by_savagegarden.jpg?direct&200|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_carb_27152-71e_pic_1_by_savagegarden.jpg?direct&200|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_carb_27152-71e_pic_3_by_savagegarden.jpg?direct&200|}}|
-===== 36mm and 38mm Comparison =====
-Side by side comparison of 36mm and 38mm Bendix carbs. \\
-Aside from the venturi size, the other main difference that might affect the way it runs is the number of secondary idle discharge ports. \\
-These are the holes that get uncovered by the throttle plate at part throttle settings. \\
-The 38mm has 3 (in addition to the idle adjustment screw hole). \\
-The 36 has 2 (in addition to the idle adjustment screw hole). \\
-The air cleaner screw bosses on the 36mm are smaller. \\
-|  (Left) 38mm, (Right) 36mm ((photo by needspedd of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1993814))  |  36mm doesn't have a bowl vent hole here ((photo by needspedd of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1993814))  |  (L) 38mm has a flat corner,  (R) 36mm is round ((photo by needspedd of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1993814))  |
-|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_36-38mm_carb_comparison_1_by_needspeed.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_36-38mm_carb_comparison_2_by_needspeed.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_36-38mm_carb_comparison_3_by_needspeed.jpg?direct&300|}}|
-===== Idle Passages =====
-The 36mm carb has 3 idle passages. ((Popgadget of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2071986&page=3)) \\
-The 38mm carb has 4 idle passages. \\
-===== Main Jet / Idle Tube =====
-One feature of an adjustable main jet, (besides the number), is the holes near the bottom that are drilled at about a 45° angle. ((needspeed of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2071986&page=2)) \\
-Note that on the adjustable main jet shown below (R), the top of it looks identical to the fixed jet. ((Popgadget of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2071986&page=2)) \\
-{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_main_jet_comparison_by_needspeed_-_annotated.jpg?direct&400|}} ((photo by needspeed of the XLFORUM, annotated by Hippysmack  http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2071986&page=2))
-Some have converted their fixed main jet setup to an adjustable jet. \\
-The C66-157 fixed main jet came standard on a 1974 Sportster. \\
-|Bendix Carb Main Jet C66-157 - 1.10mm ((photo by The Doctor71 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2073320)) ((Pic courtesy of The Doctor71 of the XLFORUM))||
-|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_main_jet_c66-157_1.10mm_by_the_doctor71.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix-zenith_carb_9_by_the_doctor71_of_the_xlforum.jpg?direct&200|}}|
-The C66-184 adjustable main jet has the tube extending beyond the taper. ((Popgadget of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2071986&page=2)) \\
-|  Bendix C66-184 adjustable main jet ((photo by Popgadget of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2071986))  ||
-|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_main_jet_1_c66-184_by_popgadget.jpg?direct&200|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_main_jet_2_c66-184_by_popgadget.jpg?direct&200|}}|
-==== Idle Tube ====
-Alternate references include intermediate / idle / low speed jet. The original idle tubes are designated with either an A, B, or C marked on top. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4829064#post4829064)) \\
-Tube sizes: \\
-  * A = .60mm ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4829064#post4829064)) (27749-72) standard on carbs through change letter "A".
-  * B = .65mm ((1971-1984 HD FX FSM pg 35)) (27750-72) standard on carbs through change letter "B".
-  * C =  standard on carbs through change letter "C" plugged tubes.
-{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_idle_tubes_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4829064#post4829064)) {{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_idle_tube_-a.jpg?direct&350|}} ((photo by Hippysmack of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2072203&page=8)) \\
 \\
-===== Throttle Linkage =====
-Here’s another, and more significant difference. ((Popgadget of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2071986&page=2)) \\
-The cable attachment to the throttle shaft is in a different position which changes the geometry of the cable action. \\
-With the 36 mm carb, the cable pulls from over center with the stock outer jacket bracket. \\
-As you can see in the left picture, even with a modified bracket, the geometry isn’t great. \\
-The picture on the right is the same 36mm carb with the correct throttle shaft and return spring for a 38mm carb added. \\
-The throttle return spring is substantially stronger than the original (for the 36mm). \\
-It also required an additional spring to properly return. \\
-The standard (38mm style) bracket was used to support the outer jacket of the cable. \\
-{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_carb_14_by_popgadget.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Popgadget of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2071986&page=2))
-{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_carb_9_by_popgadget.jpg?direct&400|}} ((photo by Popgadget of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2071986&page=2)) {{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_carb_10_by_popgadget.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Popgadget of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2071986&page=2)) \\
-====== Pics of Bendix Carbs ======
-===== 27152-71A =====
-{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix-zenith_carb_1_by_the_doctor71_of_the_xlforum.jpg?direct&200|}}
-((Pic courtesy of The Doctor71 of the XLFORUM)) {{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix-zenith_carb_2_by_the_doctor71_of_the_xlforum.jpg?direct&200|}}
-((Pic courtesy of The Doctor71 of the XLFORUM)) {{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix-zenith_carb_3_by_the_doctor71_of_the_xlforum.jpg?direct&200|}}
-((Pic courtesy of The Doctor71 of the XLFORUM)) \\
-{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix-zenith_carb_4_by_the_doctor71_of_the_xlforum.jpg?direct&200|}}
-((Pic courtesy of The Doctor71 of the XLFORUM)) {{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix-zenith_carb_5_by_the_doctor71_of_the_xlforum.jpg?direct&200|}}
-((Pic courtesy of The Doctor71 of the XLFORUM)) {{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix-zenith_carb_6_by_the_doctor71_of_the_xlforum.jpg?direct&200|}}
-((Pic courtesy of The Doctor71 of the XLFORUM)) \\
-{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix-zenith_carb_7_by_the_doctor71_of_the_xlforum.jpg?direct&200|}}
-((Pic courtesy of The Doctor71 of the XLFORUM)) {{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix-zenith_carb_8_by_the_doctor71_of_the_xlforum.jpg?direct&200|}}
-((Pic courtesy of The Doctor71 of the XLFORUM)) {{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix-zenith_carb_9_by_the_doctor71_of_the_xlforum.jpg?direct&200|}}
-((Pic courtesy of The Doctor71 of the XLFORUM)) \\
-{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix-zenith_carb_10_by_the_doctor71_of_the_xlforum.jpg?direct&200|}}
-((Pic courtesy of The Doctor71 of the XLFORUM)) {{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix-zenith_carb_11_by_the_doctor71_of_the_xlforum.jpg?direct&200|}}
-((Pic courtesy of The Doctor71 of the XLFORUM)) {{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix-zenith_carb_12_by_the_doctor71_of_the_xlforum.jpg?direct&200|}}
-((Pic courtesy of The Doctor71 of the XLFORUM)) \\
-===== 27155-72B =====
-| 27155-72B (13731) fixed jet (hidden under welch plug). Also has stampings 'C' and '5 95' ((photos by DirtyHarry68 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2072203&page=2))||
-|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_carb_7_by_dirtyharry68.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_carb_9_by_dirtyharry68.jpg?direct&300|}}|
-|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_carb_2_by_dirtyharry68.jpg?direct&200|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_carb_3_by_dirtyharry68.jpg?direct&200|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_carb_5_by_dirtyharry68.jpg?direct&200|}}|
-====== Zenith Replacement Carbs ======
-===== 0-13731 =====
-  * Standard Finish ((http://www.zenithfuelsystems.com/documents/HARLEYDAVIDSONCARBURETORS2009.pdf))
-  * 38mm venturi
-  * Fixed main jet
-  * Fits all H-D® Sportster 1974 through 1980 engines
-  * OEM for (27155-72B)
-===== 0-13859 =====
-  * Standard Finish –38mm -venturi ((http://www.zenithfuelsystems.com/documents/HARLEYDAVIDSONCARBURETORS2009.pdf))
-  * Adjustable main jet
-  * Fits all H-D® Sportster 1974 thru 1980 engines
-{{:techtalk:ih:carb:bendix_by_icedpee.jpg?direct&250|}} ((photo by IcedPee of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1474268)) \\
-===== 0-14130 =====
-  * Standard Finish ((http://www.zenithfuelsystems.com/documents/HARLEYDAVIDSONCARBURETORS2009.pdf))
-  * 40mm venturi
-  * Dual throttle cable
-  * All year H-D® models with use of proper manifold.
-  * Designed for Evolution® motors
-===== 015110 and 015112 =====
-  * 015110 – Standard finish ((http://www.zenithfuelsystems.com/documents/HARLEYDAVIDSONCARBURETORS2009.pdf))
-  * 015112 –Chrome finish
-  * 40mm venture
-  * Adjustable main jet
-  * Dual throttle linkage-spigot mount
-  * Fits 1984 Evolution Engines & H-D Twin Cam models 1999 and later.
-====== Bendix / Zenith Manuals and Other Helpful Links ======
-  * [[http://www.zenithfuelsystems.com/|Zenith Fuel Systems.com]]
-  * [[http://www.zenithfuelsystems.com/documents/HARLEYDAVIDSONCARBURETORS2009.pdf|2009 Zenith Fuel Systems LLC PDF for Harley Carbs]]
-\\
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