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techtalk:ih:engctl01 [2023/07/10 21:24] ixl2relax [Battery Ignition (Circuit Breaker/Points/Timer/Distributor)] |
techtalk:ih:engctl01 [2023/12/30 03:28] (current) hippysmack |
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| (58-59 XLC and 58-69 XLCH) ((1952-1959 HD Spare Parts Catalog for all Sportster and K Models pg 19)) ((1960-1970 HD Sportster Parts Catalog pg 18)) \\ | (58-59 XLC and 58-69 XLCH) ((1952-1959 HD Spare Parts Catalog for all Sportster and K Models pg 19)) ((1960-1970 HD Sportster Parts Catalog pg 18)) \\ | ||
| The magneto produces a high voltage discharge to the spark plug which is timed to each cylinder's compression stroke. \\ | The magneto produces a high voltage discharge to the spark plug which is timed to each cylinder's compression stroke. \\ | ||
| - | It also eliminated the need for a battery for ignition. ((doodah man of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1844816)) as you can kick start or bump start the bike at about 2-1/2 MPH or less. ((11B40 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1844816&page=2)) \\ | + | It also eliminated the need for a battery for ignition. ((doodah man of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/172193-advantages-of-using-a-magneto?t=1844816)) as you can kick start or bump start the bike at about 2-1/2 MPH or less. ((11B40 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/172193-advantages-of-using-a-magneto/page2?t=1844816&page=2)) \\ |
| * Components include a single induction coil, a rotating magnet (rotor), a condenser, a circuit breaker and a circuit breaker cam. ((1959-1964 HD Sportster 55 OHV FSM pg 5F-13)) | * Components include a single induction coil, a rotating magnet (rotor), a condenser, a circuit breaker and a circuit breaker cam. ((1959-1964 HD Sportster 55 OHV FSM pg 5F-13)) | ||
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| * The high vacuum curve selected for maximum spark advance under normal light load conditions provides improved fuel economy and performance. | * The high vacuum curve selected for maximum spark advance under normal light load conditions provides improved fuel economy and performance. | ||
| * The low vacuum curve (retarded spark) minimizes spark knock, while maintaining performance under high load conditions. | * The low vacuum curve (retarded spark) minimizes spark knock, while maintaining performance under high load conditions. | ||
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| ===== Spark Coil ===== | ===== Spark Coil ===== | ||
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| | 1980-1984 | 31609-80 | | | 1980-1984 | 31609-80 | | ||
| |1985 | 31614-83A | | |1985 | 31614-83A | | ||
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| |1979 ((1979-1985 HD Sportster Parts Catalog pg 7-1)) \\ Presolite electronic ign|HD 4 → \\ HD 4R5 - resister type → |.060" \\ .038"-.043"|14mm| | |1979 ((1979-1985 HD Sportster Parts Catalog pg 7-1)) \\ Presolite electronic ign|HD 4 → \\ HD 4R5 - resister type → |.060" \\ .038"-.043"|14mm| | ||
| |1980-1985 ((1979-1985 HD Sportster Parts Catalog pg 7-1)) \\ Magnavox electronic ign|HD 4-5 → \\ HD 4R5 - resistor type → |.038"-.043"|14mm| | |1980-1985 ((1979-1985 HD Sportster Parts Catalog pg 7-1)) \\ Magnavox electronic ign|HD 4-5 → \\ HD 4R5 - resistor type → |.038"-.043"|14mm| | ||
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| ===== Sub-Documents ===== | ===== Sub-Documents ===== | ||
| * . . . [[techtalk:ih:engctl01e|Why timing advance changed from 45°- 40° in 1972]] (commentary from Dr Dick) \\ | * . . . [[techtalk:ih:engctl01e|Why timing advance changed from 45°- 40° in 1972]] (commentary from Dr Dick) \\ | ||
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| ===== Ignition Timing and Related Specs ===== | ===== Ignition Timing and Related Specs ===== | ||
| - | * Ignition timing is when the spark takes place - specifically as the piston is traveling UP on the COMPRESSION stroke (compressing the gasses so that you get the most out of the explosion/ignition). ((Moved On / My Own Choice http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=278587&highlight=map+sensor&page=2)) | + | * Ignition timing is when the spark takes place - specifically as the piston is traveling UP on the COMPRESSION stroke (compressing the gasses so that you get the most out of the explosion/ignition). ((Moved On / My Own Choice https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-intake-and-exhaust/sportster-motorcycle-air-intake-carburetor-efi-fuel-and-exhaust/55778-function-of-the-map-sensor/page2?t=278587&highlight=map+sensor&page=2)) |
| - | * Top Dead Center is when the piston is at the VERY top of its travel, in the center of it's dwell area, and is usually referenced to mean on TDC of the COMPRESSION stroke (with the valves closed and the mixture compressed), though the piston will also be at TDC on the Exhaust stroke when the flywheel turns one complete rotation in either direction from TDC of compression. ((Moved On / My Own Choice http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=278587&highlight=map+sensor&page=2)) So, the piston will be at TDC twice per 1 full revolution of the cams. Timing is measured (and set) from TDC on the compression stroke. See more on [[techtalk:ref:svcproc22#reftroubleshooting_-_engine_-_05|Finding TDC on Compression Stroke]] in the Sportsterpedia. | + | * Top Dead Center is when the piston is at the VERY top of its travel, in the center of it's dwell area, and is usually referenced to mean on TDC of the COMPRESSION stroke (with the valves closed and the mixture compressed), though the piston will also be at TDC on the Exhaust stroke when the flywheel turns one complete rotation in either direction from TDC of compression. ((Moved On / My Own Choice https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-intake-and-exhaust/sportster-motorcycle-air-intake-carburetor-efi-fuel-and-exhaust/55778-function-of-the-map-sensor/page2?t=278587&highlight=map+sensor&page=2)) So, the piston will be at TDC twice per 1 full revolution of the cams. Timing is measured (and set) from TDC on the compression stroke. See more on [[techtalk:ref:svcproc22#reftroubleshooting_-_engine_-_05|Finding TDC on Compression Stroke]] in the Sportsterpedia. |
| - | * Spark ADVANCE - is how soon, BEFORE the piston reaches top dead center (or how late - AFTER top dead center) that the spark plug fires to start burning the mixture. The faster the motor is turning, the sooner you need to start the ignition (more advanced it needs to be) so that power of the expanding gasses starts pushing on that piston as soon as it starts moving downward and pushes as long as will be beneficial. ((Moved On / My Own Choice http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=278587&highlight=map+sensor&page=2)) | + | * Spark ADVANCE - is how soon, BEFORE the piston reaches top dead center (or how late - AFTER top dead center) that the spark plug fires to start burning the mixture. The faster the motor is turning, the sooner you need to start the ignition (more advanced it needs to be) so that power of the expanding gasses starts pushing on that piston as soon as it starts moving downward and pushes as long as will be beneficial. ((Moved On / My Own Choice https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-intake-and-exhaust/sportster-motorcycle-air-intake-carburetor-efi-fuel-and-exhaust/55778-function-of-the-map-sensor/page2?t=278587&highlight=map+sensor&page=2)) |
| - | * Ignite it too soon, and the gasses start pushing down as the piston is still coming up (spark knock, pinging etc). ((Moved On / My Own Choice http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=278587&highlight=map+sensor&page=2)) | + | * Ignite it too soon, and the gasses start pushing down as the piston is still coming up (spark knock, pinging etc). ((Moved On / My Own Choice https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-intake-and-exhaust/sportster-motorcycle-air-intake-carburetor-efi-fuel-and-exhaust/55778-function-of-the-map-sensor/page2?t=278587&highlight=map+sensor&page=2)) |
| - | * Ignite it too late, and you loose a lot of the power of the gases, since the piston will reach bottom before the gasses finish expanding. ((Moved On / My Own Choice http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=278587&highlight=map+sensor&page=2)) | + | * Ignite it too late, and you loose a lot of the power of the gases, since the piston will reach bottom before the gasses finish expanding. ((Moved On / My Own Choice https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-intake-and-exhaust/sportster-motorcycle-air-intake-carburetor-efi-fuel-and-exhaust/55778-function-of-the-map-sensor/page2?t=278587&highlight=map+sensor&page=2)) |
| ==== Timing Advance ==== | ==== Timing Advance ==== | ||
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| **The timing marks on the flywheel are NOT used for timing the cams**. \\ | **The timing marks on the flywheel are NOT used for timing the cams**. \\ | ||
| Below are the timing marks on factory built engines. \\ | Below are the timing marks on factory built engines. \\ | ||
| - | **However, don't trust any timing marks on flywheels till you have physically confirmed that (TDC.. is indeed TDC).** ((fdny37 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1427992)) \\ | + | **However, don't trust any timing marks on flywheels till you have physically confirmed that (TDC.. is indeed TDC).** ((fdny37 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/133054-multiple-timing-marks?t=1427992)) \\ |
| Over the course of the last 30, 40 and even 50 plus years, these engines could have had multiple makeovers by previous owners. \\ | Over the course of the last 30, 40 and even 50 plus years, these engines could have had multiple makeovers by previous owners. \\ | ||
| Numerous modifications to the flywheels have been done or even been replaced with aftermarket wheels. \\ | Numerous modifications to the flywheels have been done or even been replaced with aftermarket wheels. \\ | ||
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| **'Factory built' engines and there respective flywheel markings**: | **'Factory built' engines and there respective flywheel markings**: | ||
| - | * 57-70 Sportster engines: ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1427992)) | + | * 57-70 Sportster engines: ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/133054-multiple-timing-marks?t=1427992)) |
| * The single straight line is 45° BTDC front cylinder (factory advanced ignition timing setting). | * The single straight line is 45° BTDC front cylinder (factory advanced ignition timing setting). | ||
| * The double straight lines are 15° BTDC front cylinder (used to set retarded kick start timing). | * The double straight lines are 15° BTDC front cylinder (used to set retarded kick start timing). | ||
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| **57-E80 flywheel marks**: \\ | **57-E80 flywheel marks**: \\ | ||
| - | {{:techtalk:ih:engctl:timing_mark_1_by_finkrod67_annotated_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by FinkRod67 of the XLFORUM annotated by Hippysmack http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1427992)) {{:techtalk:ih:engctl:timing_mark_2_by_finkrod67_annotated_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by FinkRod67 of the XLFORUM annotated by Hippysmack http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1427992)) {{:techtalk:ih:engctl:timing_mark_3_by_finkrod67_annotated_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by FinkRod67 of the XLFORUM annotated by Hippysmack http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1427992)) \\ | + | {{:techtalk:ih:engctl:timing_mark_1_by_finkrod67_annotated_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by FinkRod67 of the XLFORUM annotated by Hippysmack https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/133054-multiple-timing-marks?t=1427992)) {{:techtalk:ih:engctl:timing_mark_2_by_finkrod67_annotated_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by FinkRod67 of the XLFORUM annotated by Hippysmack https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/133054-multiple-timing-marks?t=1427992)) {{:techtalk:ih:engctl:timing_mark_3_by_finkrod67_annotated_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by FinkRod67 of the XLFORUM annotated by Hippysmack https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/133054-multiple-timing-marks?t=1427992)) \\ |
| **L80-85 flywheel marks**: \\ | **L80-85 flywheel marks**: \\ | ||
| - | {{:techtalk:ih:engctl:timing_mark_1_by_yochstein_annotated_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Yochstein of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2026846)) {{:techtalk:ih:engctl:timing_mark_2_by_yochstein_annotated_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Yochstein of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2026846)) {{:techtalk:ih:engctl:timing_mark_3_by_yochstein_annotated_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Yochstein of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2026846)) \\ | + | {{:techtalk:ih:engctl:timing_mark_1_by_yochstein_annotated_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Yochstein of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/190136-which-is-the-late-84-timing-mark?t=2026846)) {{:techtalk:ih:engctl:timing_mark_2_by_yochstein_annotated_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Yochstein of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/190136-which-is-the-late-84-timing-mark?t=2026846)) {{:techtalk:ih:engctl:timing_mark_3_by_yochstein_annotated_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Yochstein of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/190136-which-is-the-late-84-timing-mark?t=2026846)) \\ |
| ===== Setting Ignition Timing ===== | ===== Setting Ignition Timing ===== | ||
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| **Preparing the timing mark for using a timing light**: \\ | **Preparing the timing mark for using a timing light**: \\ | ||
| - | Clean the timing mark on the flywheel and apply a paint color that will stand out when viewing it with a timing light. ((DirtyCory of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1793084)) \\ | + | Clean the timing mark on the flywheel and apply a paint color that will stand out when viewing it with a timing light. ((DirtyCory of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/166876-there-has-got-to-be-a-better-way?t=1793084)) \\ |
| You can spray some brake cleaner on a Q-tip to clean the timing mark. \\ | You can spray some brake cleaner on a Q-tip to clean the timing mark. \\ | ||
| Paint the timing mark with bright pink fingernail polish (or something florescent). \\ | Paint the timing mark with bright pink fingernail polish (or something florescent). \\ | ||
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| For 1983-later, the OEM Timing Rotor is 32402-83 (Gold color). This later version is usually also used for aftermarket nosecone electronic ignitions installed in Ironhead models. | For 1983-later, the OEM Timing Rotor is 32402-83 (Gold color). This later version is usually also used for aftermarket nosecone electronic ignitions installed in Ironhead models. | ||
| - | | Example of timing cup window positions per piston positions. (Crane HI-4 on 73 model) ((photos by vivisix of the XLFORUM, labeled by Hippysmack, http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=323376&page=3)) || | + | | Example of timing cup window positions per piston positions. (Crane HI-4 on 73 model) ((photos by vivisix of the XLFORUM, labeled by Hippysmack, https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/59198-lost-tired-worn-out-running-issue/page3?t=323376&page=3)) || |
| |{{:techtalk:ih:engctl:timing_window-piston_position_1_by_vivisix.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:engctl:timing_window-piston_position_2_by_vivisix.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ih:engctl:timing_window-piston_position_1_by_vivisix.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:engctl:timing_window-piston_position_2_by_vivisix.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
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| * Only a small amount of Hi-Temp grease is recommended for proper lubrication of the cam surface, camshaft, advance weight pins and underneath the advance weights. Too much grease may melt away during service (Over lubrication can cause grease to migrate between the point contacts causing burning). See your FSM for proper assembly guidelines. | * Only a small amount of Hi-Temp grease is recommended for proper lubrication of the cam surface, camshaft, advance weight pins and underneath the advance weights. Too much grease may melt away during service (Over lubrication can cause grease to migrate between the point contacts causing burning). See your FSM for proper assembly guidelines. | ||
| * Ignition advance lubrication change in 1976: Due to normal engine combustion and friction, high temps may be present in the timer compartment and timer components. These high temps could partially dehydrate the installed grease and cause stiffening or gumminess, especially at the pivot pins and timer shaft. Normal operation keeps the assembly free but timer adjustments are more difficult. Since August, on all production engines, the timer weight assemblies and breaker cam posts have been sprayed with "Never-Seez", a spray can type lubricant when making timer adjustments. Never Seez or Locktite Anit-Sieze was suggested for dealer use along with a high temp grease on the point cam rubbing block. ((HD Service Bulletin #705 dated November 11, 1976)) | * Ignition advance lubrication change in 1976: Due to normal engine combustion and friction, high temps may be present in the timer compartment and timer components. These high temps could partially dehydrate the installed grease and cause stiffening or gumminess, especially at the pivot pins and timer shaft. Normal operation keeps the assembly free but timer adjustments are more difficult. Since August, on all production engines, the timer weight assemblies and breaker cam posts have been sprayed with "Never-Seez", a spray can type lubricant when making timer adjustments. Never Seez or Locktite Anit-Sieze was suggested for dealer use along with a high temp grease on the point cam rubbing block. ((HD Service Bulletin #705 dated November 11, 1976)) | ||
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