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techtalk:ih:oil03h [2024/01/01 19:38]
hippysmack [77-85 Oil Pump Assembly]
techtalk:ih:oil03h [2024/01/01 19:44] (current)
hippysmack
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 ====== Outer plate Seal (12036A) ====== ====== Outer plate Seal (12036A) ======
-Seal (12036A) fits the 83-85 outer plate. ((photos by disisme of the XLFORUM ​http://​xlforum.net/​forums/showthread.php?​p=4998790))+Seal (12036A) fits the 83-85 outer plate. ((photos by disisme of the XLFORUM ​https://www.xlforum.net/​forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/​sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/​frame-mount-evo-sportster-talk-1986-2003-models/​170489-oil-seal-in-plate#​post3632330))
 |{{:​techtalk:​ih:​oil:​12036a_installed_1_by_disisme.jpg?​direct&​200|}}|{{:​techtalk:​ih:​oil:​12036a_installed_2_by_disisme.jpg?​direct&​200|}}|{{:​techtalk:​ih:​oil:​12036a_installed_3_by_disisme.jpg?​direct&​200|}}| |{{:​techtalk:​ih:​oil:​12036a_installed_1_by_disisme.jpg?​direct&​200|}}|{{:​techtalk:​ih:​oil:​12036a_installed_2_by_disisme.jpg?​direct&​200|}}|{{:​techtalk:​ih:​oil:​12036a_installed_3_by_disisme.jpg?​direct&​200|}}|
  
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     *  If the spring is installed upside down, the fingers won't fit right inside the cupped area of the inner plate. \\ That could affect spring tension and even pressure on the gerotors resulting in non-horizontal wear on the aluminum mating surfaces.     *  If the spring is installed upside down, the fingers won't fit right inside the cupped area of the inner plate. \\ That could affect spring tension and even pressure on the gerotors resulting in non-horizontal wear on the aluminum mating surfaces.
   * **Make sure the outer separator plate is seated properly before installing the cover screws**.   * **Make sure the outer separator plate is seated properly before installing the cover screws**.
-    * One problem with assembling an IH gerotor pump is the roll pin in the oil pump housing. \\ The lower (outer) spacer plate has a slot cut into it that goes around that pin in the housing. ((Hippysmack of the XLFORUM ​http://​xlforum.net/​forums/showthread.php?​p=5798817)) \\ The uncompressed spring pushes this connection outward and with a loose cover, the outer plate will spin over the top of the pin. \\ If the plate rides on the end of the pin when the cover is installed then tightened down, this will lock the pump to the point of damage with the motor running. \\ Best to assemble the pump with duct tape until you get it mounted to keep the spacer from moving. \\ Else the pump can lock up once the bolts are in due to the washer not being sunk into the housing properly. +    * One problem with assembling an IH gerotor pump is the roll pin in the oil pump housing. \\ The lower (outer) spacer plate has a slot cut into it that goes around that pin in the housing. ((Hippysmack of the XLFORUM ​https://www.xlforum.net/​forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/​sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/​ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/​198728-oil-pump-gear-turning-resistance/​page2#​post4368150)) \\ The uncompressed spring pushes this connection outward and with a loose cover, the outer plate will spin over the top of the pin. \\ If the plate rides on the end of the pin when the cover is installed then tightened down, this will lock the pump to the point of damage with the motor running. \\ Best to assemble the pump with duct tape until you get it mounted to keep the spacer from moving. \\ Else the pump can lock up once the bolts are in due to the washer not being sunk into the housing properly. 
-    * What happens when the outer plate gets out of alignment (or turned even slightly) is the cover presses the plate onto the roll pin in the housing. \\ Consequently,​ one side of the feed gerotors are pressed into the assembly more than the other side. \\ Serious damage to the outer plate and possible seized gerotors is certain with this scenario and that damage will flow right to your crank. ((DirtyCory of the XLFORUM ​http://​xlforum.net/​forums/showthread.php?​p=5706948#post5706948)) \\ The gerotors depend on two main horizontal plains each. Each rotate on: \\ A flat metal surface (plate) that is pressed against them by the spring washer and the flat aluminum surface in the body or the cover. \\ With all things equal, the metal plate can wear down the thickness of the adjacent gerotors. \\ And the gerotors can wear the aluminum mating surface as well.+    * What happens when the outer plate gets out of alignment (or turned even slightly) is the cover presses the plate onto the roll pin in the housing. \\ Consequently,​ one side of the feed gerotors are pressed into the assembly more than the other side. \\ Serious damage to the outer plate and possible seized gerotors is certain with this scenario and that damage will flow right to your crank. ((DirtyCory of the XLFORUM ​https://www.xlforum.net/​forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/​sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/​ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/​194881-let-s-study-the-77-85-oil-pump-parts-and-changes-and-when/​page5#post4243482)) \\ The gerotors depend on two main horizontal plains each. Each rotate on: \\ A flat metal surface (plate) that is pressed against them by the spring washer and the flat aluminum surface in the body or the cover. \\ With all things equal, the metal plate can wear down the thickness of the adjacent gerotors. \\ And the gerotors can wear the aluminum mating surface as well.
  
 ===== Gearshaft resistance ===== ===== Gearshaft resistance =====
- 
 Once the oil pump is installed and tightened up, the gears will be hard to turn by hand. \\ Once the oil pump is installed and tightened up, the gears will be hard to turn by hand. \\
 This is normal and because of the spring washer between the upper and lower separator plates. \\ This is normal and because of the spring washer between the upper and lower separator plates. \\
-The resistance felt at the driveshaft gear is only generated from pressure against the feed gerotors. ((Hippysmack of the XLFORUM ​http://​xlforum.net/​forums/showthread.php?​t=2071153&​page=12)) \\+The resistance felt at the driveshaft gear is only generated from pressure against the feed gerotors. ((Hippysmack of the XLFORUM ​https://www.xlforum.net/​forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/​sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/​ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/​194881-let-s-study-the-77-85-oil-pump-parts-and-changes-and-when/​page12?​t=2071153&​page=12)) \\
 In fact, with the pump removed from the engine, assembled with all internals (a couple nuts and bolts to clamp the cover to the housing); \\ In fact, with the pump removed from the engine, assembled with all internals (a couple nuts and bolts to clamp the cover to the housing); \\
 1977-1990 oil pumps have to be turned with 2 fingers... and some guff. It will be difficult (but doable) to turn. \\ 1977-1990 oil pumps have to be turned with 2 fingers... and some guff. It will be difficult (but doable) to turn. \\
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 <​blockquote>​I hook up the oil pump supply line and fill it with engine oil, sometimes a funnel stuck in the end of a hose is all you need, in this case I hooked it right up to the oil tank. Then I grab the rods and spin the motor over until oil wells up in the holes that go to the rocker boxes. This makes sure that the pump is working and that all the oil passages are free and clear. Sometimes it is hard to make a new motor start pumping oil, in those cases I put an air hose on the oil tank and pressurize the tank with maybe three or four PSI out of my air hose to force oil into the supply line. I had to do that on this motor. It is not unusual. After oil wells up into those rocker box supply holes, I plug them. I usually just stick an old ball bearing in the fitting for the rocker supply line. Then keep spinning the motor, after just a little bit you should see oil coming out from around the connecting rods. If you don't you've got a problem. And as bad as it is to find that out now, it is a lot better to fine out now than after you've fired and fried the engine. All the oil you see around these rods is oil that got there by me spinning the engine over just by grabbing the ends of the connecting rods. I also dumped a little oil into the cam chest through the lifter block holes, after just a little spinning oil started being pumped out of the return to the tank fitting, so now I know the scavenge side of the pump is also working. I do this procedure on every engine I have the heads and barrels off on. It is cheap insurance to avoid costly problems down the road.</​blockquote>​ <​blockquote>​I hook up the oil pump supply line and fill it with engine oil, sometimes a funnel stuck in the end of a hose is all you need, in this case I hooked it right up to the oil tank. Then I grab the rods and spin the motor over until oil wells up in the holes that go to the rocker boxes. This makes sure that the pump is working and that all the oil passages are free and clear. Sometimes it is hard to make a new motor start pumping oil, in those cases I put an air hose on the oil tank and pressurize the tank with maybe three or four PSI out of my air hose to force oil into the supply line. I had to do that on this motor. It is not unusual. After oil wells up into those rocker box supply holes, I plug them. I usually just stick an old ball bearing in the fitting for the rocker supply line. Then keep spinning the motor, after just a little bit you should see oil coming out from around the connecting rods. If you don't you've got a problem. And as bad as it is to find that out now, it is a lot better to fine out now than after you've fired and fried the engine. All the oil you see around these rods is oil that got there by me spinning the engine over just by grabbing the ends of the connecting rods. I also dumped a little oil into the cam chest through the lifter block holes, after just a little spinning oil started being pumped out of the return to the tank fitting, so now I know the scavenge side of the pump is also working. I do this procedure on every engine I have the heads and barrels off on. It is cheap insurance to avoid costly problems down the road.</​blockquote>​
  
-{{:​techtalk:​ih:​oil:​testing_oil_pump_pic1_by_ironhead-p.jpg?​direct&​300|}} ((photo by Ironhead-P of the XLFORUM ​http://​xlforum.net/​forums/showthread.php?​t=315908&​page=5)) {{:​techtalk:​ih:​oil:​testing_oil_pump_pic2_by_ironhead-p.jpg?​direct&​300|}} ((photo by Ironhead-P of the XLFORUM ​http://​xlforum.net/​forums/showthread.php?​t=315908&​page=5)) {{:​techtalk:​ih:​oil:​testing_oil_pump_pic3_by_ironhead-p.jpg?​direct&​300|}} ((photo by Ironhead-P of the XLFORUM ​http://​xlforum.net/​forums/showthread.php?​t=315908&​page=5)) \\+{{:​techtalk:​ih:​oil:​testing_oil_pump_pic1_by_ironhead-p.jpg?​direct&​300|}} ((photo by Ironhead-P of the XLFORUM ​https://www.xlforum.net/​forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/​sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/​ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/​58696-77-sportster-build/​page5?​t=315908&​page=5)) {{:​techtalk:​ih:​oil:​testing_oil_pump_pic2_by_ironhead-p.jpg?​direct&​300|}} ((photo by Ironhead-P of the XLFORUM ​https://www.xlforum.net/​forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/​sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/​ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/​58696-77-sportster-build/​page5?​t=315908&​page=5)) {{:​techtalk:​ih:​oil:​testing_oil_pump_pic3_by_ironhead-p.jpg?​direct&​300|}} ((photo by Ironhead-P of the XLFORUM ​https://www.xlforum.net/​forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/​sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/​ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/​58696-77-sportster-build/​page5?​t=315908&​page=5)) \\
  
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