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techtalk:ref:genmsr10 [2019/04/01 18:48] hippysmack [Loctite or Threadlocker] |
techtalk:ref:genmsr10 [2024/01/17 23:11] (current) hippysmack |
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| ====== Assembly Lubes, Oils and Sealant ====== | ====== Assembly Lubes, Oils and Sealant ====== | ||
| + | ====== Case Half Sealant ====== | ||
| + | Apparently HondaBond, YammaBond, and ThreeBond are all the same product, all manufactured by 3M company. ((IronMick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/119047-case-halves-goo?s=5165c2d55507b0a80754920c69e24721#post2491282)) \\ | ||
| + | These are recommended for this application. \\ | ||
| ====== Wheels ====== | ====== Wheels ====== | ||
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| * Substitutes for the HD bearing grease include; marine grade bearing/ axle grease | * Substitutes for the HD bearing grease include; marine grade bearing/ axle grease | ||
| * Light clean engine oil is suggested for use on front and rear/ cast and laced;((1998 HD FSM pg 2-13)) | * Light clean engine oil is suggested for use on front and rear/ cast and laced;((1998 HD FSM pg 2-13)) | ||
| - | * Outside lip of the hubs oil seal | + | * Outside lip of the hubs oil seal |
| ===== Tires ===== | ===== Tires ===== | ||
| * Tire lube or soapy water when installing on rim ((1998 HD XLH FSM)) | * Tire lube or soapy water when installing on rim ((1998 HD XLH FSM)) | ||
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| ===== Axles ===== | ===== Axles ===== | ||
| * Front axle- light coat of bearing grease ((1998 HD XLH FSM)) | * Front axle- light coat of bearing grease ((1998 HD XLH FSM)) | ||
| * Rear axle- light coat of Loctite anti-seize lube ((1998 HD XLH FSM)) | * Rear axle- light coat of Loctite anti-seize lube ((1998 HD XLH FSM)) | ||
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| ===== Secondary Drive Sprocket ===== | ===== Secondary Drive Sprocket ===== | ||
| * Rear wheel sprocket to rim bolts - cast or laced- Red Loctite 271 (2-drops ea.)((1998 HD XLH FSM)) | * Rear wheel sprocket to rim bolts - cast or laced- Red Loctite 271 (2-drops ea.)((1998 HD XLH FSM)) | ||
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| * 3 drops applied to the backing adhesive after peeling off the plastic seal, allow 8 hours to cure ((1998 HD XLH FSM)) | * 3 drops applied to the backing adhesive after peeling off the plastic seal, allow 8 hours to cure ((1998 HD XLH FSM)) | ||
| * FSM will direct you to the spoke weights on laced wheels but of late HD has went to the stick-on weights for both laced and cast wheels. | * FSM will direct you to the spoke weights on laced wheels but of late HD has went to the stick-on weights for both laced and cast wheels. | ||
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| ====== Bearing Grease ===== | ====== Bearing Grease ===== | ||
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| * Numerous types of grease thickeners are currently in use, each with its own pros and cons. The most common types are simple lithium soaps, lithium complex and polyurea. Simple lithium soaps are often used in low-cost general-purpose greases and perform relatively well in most performance categories at moderate temperatures. Complex greases such as lithium complex provide improved performance particularly at higher operating temperatures. A common upper operating temperature limit for a simple lithium grease might be 250°F, while that for a lithium complex grease might be 350°F. Another thickener type that is becoming more popular is polyurea. Like lithium complex, polyurea has good high-temperature performance as well as high oxidation stability and bleed resistance. ((http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/798/grease-selection)) | * Numerous types of grease thickeners are currently in use, each with its own pros and cons. The most common types are simple lithium soaps, lithium complex and polyurea. Simple lithium soaps are often used in low-cost general-purpose greases and perform relatively well in most performance categories at moderate temperatures. Complex greases such as lithium complex provide improved performance particularly at higher operating temperatures. A common upper operating temperature limit for a simple lithium grease might be 250°F, while that for a lithium complex grease might be 350°F. Another thickener type that is becoming more popular is polyurea. Like lithium complex, polyurea has good high-temperature performance as well as high oxidation stability and bleed resistance. ((http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/798/grease-selection)) | ||
| * The color of the different grease formulas is mostly significant to the manufacturer of the product. The natural color of most grease is very close to mud. A moly or graphite grease is probably black. All the pretty green, blue and red hues are dyes and have no other chemical significance whatsoever.((http://www.bylucasoil.com/articles))However, this may also give you a clue as to what type and or brand of grease that was previously used and that can also give clues (as to wear or non-wear during it's use) of it's abilities for the intended use. | * The color of the different grease formulas is mostly significant to the manufacturer of the product. The natural color of most grease is very close to mud. A moly or graphite grease is probably black. All the pretty green, blue and red hues are dyes and have no other chemical significance whatsoever.((http://www.bylucasoil.com/articles))However, this may also give you a clue as to what type and or brand of grease that was previously used and that can also give clues (as to wear or non-wear during it's use) of it's abilities for the intended use. | ||
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| ===== Some Wheel Bearing Grease Comparisons ===== | ===== Some Wheel Bearing Grease Comparisons ===== | ||
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| * Temperature Range; -22°F to 240°F (-30°C to +140°C). A multipurpose mineral oil based lithium complex grease developed using an optimized combination of high quality mineral oil, proprietary thickener technology and a specially selected additive system enabling reliable performance across a wide range of temperatures whilst exposed to a variety of operational loads, speeds and environmental conditions. ((http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/26F3ED12C061A3F0802578D8002C47DB/$File/BPXE-8K4BSP_0.pdf)) | * Temperature Range; -22°F to 240°F (-30°C to +140°C). A multipurpose mineral oil based lithium complex grease developed using an optimized combination of high quality mineral oil, proprietary thickener technology and a specially selected additive system enabling reliable performance across a wide range of temperatures whilst exposed to a variety of operational loads, speeds and environmental conditions. ((http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/26F3ED12C061A3F0802578D8002C47DB/$File/BPXE-8K4BSP_0.pdf)) | ||
| Always remove any old/ previous grease before adding new grease to bearings whether or not you are changing brands of grease. | Always remove any old/ previous grease before adding new grease to bearings whether or not you are changing brands of grease. | ||
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| - | ====== Dielectric Grease ====== | ||
| - | * A silicone dielectric compound, nonconductive, moisture proof grease meaning that it does not enhance the flow of electrical current and acts as a moisture seal as well as a current insulator for electrical connections. It is silicone based but does not harden like silicone sealants that your used to. It acts as normal grease does with a varying viscosity to heat. | ||
| - | * Typical industry uses include aircraft, automotive and marine ignition systems, widely used in spark plug connections and also disconnection junctions in electrical wiring systems, electrical assemblies and terminals. | ||
| - | * Also for other uses including a seal and lubricant for cable connectors, battery terminals, rubber door seals, switches and rubber and plastic O-rings and as an assembly lubricant for various metal-on-plastic and metal-on-rubber combinations. | ||
| - | * A good quality dielectric grease compound will normally be: | ||
| - | * High in dielectric strength with a low volatility | ||
| - | * Moisture resistant / highly water repellent | ||
| - | * With good thermal oxidation | ||
| - | * Chemically stable in high heat conditions to keep it's consistency while adhering readily to dry metals, ceramics, rubber, plastics and insulating resins. ((http://www.dowcorning.com/DataFiles/090276fe80190790.pdf)) | ||
| - | * Dielectric grease comes in small squeeze pouches as well as pressurized canisters depending on quantity desired. There are o many uses for it, it is usually better to buy the can. | ||
| - | * Here is another good argument prone subject but towards its use instead of its ingredients. Most people agree that dielectric grease is a great product for most all the reasons publicized. The divide, however, is the use of it “before or after” connecting your joints/ splices. | ||
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| - | ===== The Truth About Using Dielectric Grease ===== | ||
| - | * In some cases, a grease may not be recommended or productive to adjacent components. Check the manufacturers label for precautions in use. | ||
| - | * It is Ok to grease the connectors before connection being made for most applications as long as there is a tight enough metal to metal connection point to push out the grease in that area. | ||
| - | * DO NOT use WD-40 to blow out/ clean old grease from connectors. Wd-40 is a conductive petroleum based lubricant that will not wipe out or dry up enough to ensure a non-conductive condition in your connections which could arc on such use. | ||
| - | * Dielectric grease is NOT a conductor, its an insulator....((cantolina of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=130945&highlight=dielectric+grease)) | ||
| - | * Dielectric grease, while not promoting conductivity, does help to preserve and maintain it by reducing conductivity degrading corrosion/oxidation of electrical connections over the dimension of time. It works by sealing out air and moisture (if good, solid, tight connections have been made and have been periodically cleaned and checked for same). | ||
| - | * While slathering dielectric grease everywhere onto electrical connectors before you mate them won’t yield an improvement in electrical current, it does coat and/or undercoat surrounding open areas not subject to tight bonding and keeps corrosion from entering. | ||
| - | * Applying too much can hydro lock the insides of the connectors to be interlocked (as in male to female wiring connectors and especially the closed cup plastic ones often found on Sportsters) and keep a tight connection from happening. Apply it sparingly. | ||
| - | * It's a pain to remove from electrical connectors. | ||
| - | * In use of a dielectric or any other type grease, there will be dirt infiltration/ contamination from time to time that must be cleaned out and replenished. Even though some manufacturers will claim that dielectric grease does not chemically attract dirt, it will find its way into the connector/ connection. | ||
| - | * Always make sure your connections are tight, especially if you lube them before connecting them to allow the grease to move out of the hard connection area. Use a multi-meter to confirm conductivity before leaving it. | ||
| - | * Dielectric grease is not a cleaner, it cannot restore corroded electrical connections but it is non-conductive grease with good heat resistance properties. | ||
| - | * I tried both ways and don't see any voltage difference with my cheapo meter so I don't think the grease has much, if any resistance.((Baldspot of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1513574&highlight=dielectric+grease)) | ||
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| - | ===== Proper Use of Dielectric Grease ===== | ||
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| - | * Understanding the principles above and the purpose of dielectric grease - a nonconductor of direct electric current, you can use it in an appropriate manner to help maintain electrical connections in your motorcycle or whatever else. | ||
| - | * The widest use of dielectric grease is in high-voltage connections associated with spark plugs. The grease is applied to the rubber boot of the plug wire. This helps the rubber boot slide onto the ceramic insulator of the plug. The grease also acts to seal the rubber boot, while at the same time preventing the rubber from becoming stuck to the ceramic.((http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/001202.html)) | ||
| - | * Another common use of dielectric grease is on the rubber mating surfaces or gaskets of multi-pin electrical connectors used in automotive, motorcycle and marine engines. The grease again acts as a lubricant and a sealant on the nonconductive mating surfaces of the connector. The MoCo did a lot to keep water out of the connections but not as much to reduce moisture which is a silent killer of your multi-pin connections.((http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/001202.html)) | ||
| - | * The high temperature properties of a non-conducting grease, some sold at automotive supply stores, make it a good choice for acting as a sealant to keep water out of light/ lamp sockets. An incandescent bulb can create considerable temperature rise in an enclosed lamp compartment. Using a grease that does not turn into liquid and run out would be helpful.((http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/001202.html)) | ||
| - | * Regarding 12-volt DC batteries in a Sportster, conductive grease or non-conductive is OK to use. Some will say there is little reason to use an expensive dielectric grease to protect battery electrical connections because the system voltage is so low that practically any grease will have sufficient insulating properties. It is not necessary to employ such a skillfully formulated grease to keep moisture from the terminal of a 12-volt battery. Indeed, it is common that general purpose marine grease can be used as an electrical insulating grease in 12-volt systems, as well as “Coke” brand drink products, any bottom drippings of any oil container, etc. Just remember if using anything conductive, do not allow it to travel down the plastic towards the opposite connection.((http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/001202.html))((hippysmack)) | ||
| - | * Electrical connections, circuit breakers, contacts, trailer connectors, HEI distributor, battery terminals, contacts, lubrication of plastic and rubber parts & O-rings ((http://crcindustries.com/auto/?s=05113)) | ||
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| - | ===== Dielectric Grease Cleanup (Spills) ===== | ||
| - | * Remove with petroleum distillates and chlorinated solvents. ((http://crcindustries.com/auto/?s=05113)) | ||
| - | * Soak up with inert absorbent material (e.g. sand, silica gel, acid binder, universal binder, sawdust).((http://hybris.cms.henkel.com/henkel/msdspdf?country=US&language=EN&matnr=718807)) | ||
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| - | ===== Precautions ===== | ||
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| - | * Use only with adequate ventilation. Prevent contact with eyes, skin and clothing. Do not breathe vapor and mist. Wash thoroughly after handling. Keep container closed. | ||
| - | * For safe storage, store at or below 38 °C (100.4 °F). | ||
| - | * Keep in a cool, well ventilated area away from heat, sparks and open flame. Keep container tightly closed until ready for use. | ||
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| - | |SAE - AS 8660|This specification covers one type of a nonmelting, heat stable silicone compound for use in high tension electrical connections, ignition systems and electronics equipment; for application to unpainted mating threaded or non-threaded surfaces, and as a lubricant for components fabricated from rubber. This compound is effective in the temperature range from -54°C (-65°F) to +204°C (+400°F) for extended periods and to 260°C (500°F) for short periods. This compound is identified by NATO symbol S-736((http://standards.sae.org/as8660/))| | ||
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| * The solids in the compound are important because the degree in protection and temperature limits are generally determined by the amount and type of solids that are in the formula. The melting point of the metallic ingredients limit the temperature recommendations of anti-seize compounds; Copper @ 1800° F, Nickel @ 2600º F, Graphite @ 1100º F. Nickel has better chemical resistance than copper and aluminum therefore nickel based anti seize is recommended for more corrosive applications. Average shelf life is plus 1 year. | * The solids in the compound are important because the degree in protection and temperature limits are generally determined by the amount and type of solids that are in the formula. The melting point of the metallic ingredients limit the temperature recommendations of anti-seize compounds; Copper @ 1800° F, Nickel @ 2600º F, Graphite @ 1100º F. Nickel has better chemical resistance than copper and aluminum therefore nickel based anti seize is recommended for more corrosive applications. Average shelf life is plus 1 year. | ||
| * Typical applications include flanges and fittings, motor mounts, cam rollers and guides, press fits, keyways, heavily loaded and slow moving bearings, nuts, plugs, punches, taps, dies, drills, bolts, studs, gears/pulleys, couplings and joints. ((http://www.antiseize.com/pdf/why_use_an_antiseize.pdf)) | * Typical applications include flanges and fittings, motor mounts, cam rollers and guides, press fits, keyways, heavily loaded and slow moving bearings, nuts, plugs, punches, taps, dies, drills, bolts, studs, gears/pulleys, couplings and joints. ((http://www.antiseize.com/pdf/why_use_an_antiseize.pdf)) | ||
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| There are different brands and formulas for different applications but just remember that they are all formula based for certain applications. There are low temp formulas as well as the high temps already mentioned, formulas for marine based applications for salt and water and also food grade formulas for use in food prep machines. They are not however formulated for use with dissimilar metals or for certain metal combinations. | There are different brands and formulas for different applications but just remember that they are all formula based for certain applications. There are low temp formulas as well as the high temps already mentioned, formulas for marine based applications for salt and water and also food grade formulas for use in food prep machines. They are not however formulated for use with dissimilar metals or for certain metal combinations. | ||
| ===== Most manufacturer's products read that they are safe for use on all metals, however; ===== | ===== Most manufacturer's products read that they are safe for use on all metals, however; ===== | ||
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| * Copper base anti-seize offers good corrosion protection on all kinds of steel except stainless steel. Copper on stainless steel creates an inter-crystaline corrosion, which can make actual stainless steel parts crack and break. This is why the nuclear power plants do not allow copper with any material which comes in contact with the stainless steel parts. | * Copper base anti-seize offers good corrosion protection on all kinds of steel except stainless steel. Copper on stainless steel creates an inter-crystaline corrosion, which can make actual stainless steel parts crack and break. This is why the nuclear power plants do not allow copper with any material which comes in contact with the stainless steel parts. | ||
| * Temperature Range: 2200° F ((http://www.depacproducts.net/anti.html)) | * Temperature Range: 2200° F ((http://www.depacproducts.net/anti.html)) | ||
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| * Nickel has been used extensively in Anti-Seize materials, because it has good anti-seize and corrosion protection for both steel and stainless steel. However, nickel has been for many years, on the list of carcinogens ( cancer producing products ) and should not be used in applications where nickel based anti-seize is used on materials handled in workshops. | * Nickel has been used extensively in Anti-Seize materials, because it has good anti-seize and corrosion protection for both steel and stainless steel. However, nickel has been for many years, on the list of carcinogens ( cancer producing products ) and should not be used in applications where nickel based anti-seize is used on materials handled in workshops. | ||
| * Temperature Range: 2500° F ((http://www.depacproducts.net/anti.html)) | * Temperature Range: 2500° F ((http://www.depacproducts.net/anti.html)) | ||
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| ===== Some examples of different brands ===== | ===== Some examples of different brands ===== | ||
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| * Vibra-Tite: | * Vibra-Tite: | ||
| * __Silver__: Aluminum - Copper Anti-Seize is a general all metal formula. Viscosity of 120,000 - 175,000 in a paste and temperature range up to 1,600 degrees F. | * __Silver__: Aluminum - Copper Anti-Seize is a general all metal formula. Viscosity of 120,000 - 175,000 in a paste and temperature range up to 1,600 degrees F. | ||
| * __C5-A�:__ Copper Anti-Seize is ideal for soft metals. Viscosity of 120,000 - 175,000 in a paste and temperature range up to 1,800 degrees F. | * __C5-A�:__ Copper Anti-Seize is ideal for soft metals. Viscosity of 120,000 - 175,000 in a paste and temperature range up to 1,800 degrees F. | ||
| * __Nickel__: Nickel Anti-Seize ideal for extreme temperatures. Viscosity of 350,000 - 500,000 in a paste and temperature range up to 2,600 degrees F. ((http://antiseize.net/anti-seize-data.htm)) | * __Nickel__: Nickel Anti-Seize ideal for extreme temperatures. Viscosity of 350,000 - 500,000 in a paste and temperature range up to 2,600 degrees F. ((http://antiseize.net/anti-seize-data.htm)) | ||
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| * MRO Solutions: | * MRO Solutions: | ||
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| * Does not alter the frictional coefficient between bolts and the female thread. | * Does not alter the frictional coefficient between bolts and the female thread. | ||
| * Temperature Range: Subzero to 2500° F ((http://www.depacproducts.net/anti.html)) | * Temperature Range: Subzero to 2500° F ((http://www.depacproducts.net/anti.html)) | ||
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| ===== Other ===== | ===== Other ===== | ||
| + | * Use wax on chrome fasteners as anti-seize compound. Works very well...probably as well as anti-seize in that application. ((cantolina of the XLFOUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/82723-stuck-broken-bolt-removal-101?t=614423&highlight=tap+die)) | ||
| + | * If using new chrome nuts and bolt, you MUST use anti-seeze lube. Else they will gall together. ((joestuff of the XLFOUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/82723-stuck-broken-bolt-removal-101?t=614423&highlight=tap+die)) | ||
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| - | * Use wax on chrome fasteners as anti-seize compound. Works very well...probably as well as anti-seize in that application. ((cantolina of the XLFOUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=614423&highlight=tap+die)) | ||
| - | * If using new chrome nuts and bolt, you MUST use anti-seeze lube. Else they will gall together. ((joestuff of the XLFOUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=614423&highlight=tap+die)) | ||
| ===== Upon comparison, copper based anti-seize seems to be the best choice used on a Sportster ===== | ===== Upon comparison, copper based anti-seize seems to be the best choice used on a Sportster ===== | ||
| ===== The FSM points out areas to use anti-seize on: ===== | ===== The FSM points out areas to use anti-seize on: ===== | ||
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| * High strength formulas are recommended for up to 1" fasteners and applications to 450 degrees F. | * High strength formulas are recommended for up to 1" fasteners and applications to 450 degrees F. | ||
| * There are many more formulas on the market with different strengths and applications. The ones mentioned are or have been most common. Most hardware stores carry a medium and a high strength and some the low strength. But, there are different strengths of low, medium and high formulas. Check with the manufacturer for a current list of products and applications offered. In general, all you need is the most common blue and red for a Sporty. | * There are many more formulas on the market with different strengths and applications. The ones mentioned are or have been most common. Most hardware stores carry a medium and a high strength and some the low strength. But, there are different strengths of low, medium and high formulas. Check with the manufacturer for a current list of products and applications offered. In general, all you need is the most common blue and red for a Sporty. | ||
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| ===== Application (from the MoCo) ===== | ===== Application (from the MoCo) ===== | ||
| ==== General Locking and Sealing Compounds ==== | ==== General Locking and Sealing Compounds ==== | ||
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| |Locquic Primer T| - |Fast curing primer - Used for Loctite threadlockers, retaining compounds and sealants.| | |Locquic Primer T| - |Fast curing primer - Used for Loctite threadlockers, retaining compounds and sealants.| | ||
| |Locquic Primer NF 736| - |Very fast curing primer - Used for Loctite threadlockers, retaining compounds and sealants.| | |Locquic Primer NF 736| - |Very fast curing primer - Used for Loctite threadlockers, retaining compounds and sealants.| | ||
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| ===== Application (from manufacturers) ===== | ===== Application (from manufacturers) ===== | ||
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| * In to a thru hole, if you leave the bolt soppy with oil, the bolt needs to “set” a little after it is in just snug to allow any trapped oil to escape the threads before going to torque. Still, lubed threads will change installation torque values. | * In to a thru hole, if you leave the bolt soppy with oil, the bolt needs to “set” a little after it is in just snug to allow any trapped oil to escape the threads before going to torque. Still, lubed threads will change installation torque values. | ||
| * On blind threaded holes, hydrolock can happen if too much oil is left on the threads or too much threadlock is left in the bottom. Appling threadlock into a blind hole also allows for the bolt to be locked horizontally and vertically making it harder to remove and also you have to clean all that back out to re-install the bolt. Again, just a few threads covered will do. | * On blind threaded holes, hydrolock can happen if too much oil is left on the threads or too much threadlock is left in the bottom. Appling threadlock into a blind hole also allows for the bolt to be locked horizontally and vertically making it harder to remove and also you have to clean all that back out to re-install the bolt. Again, just a few threads covered will do. | ||
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| ===== Removal ===== | ===== Removal ===== | ||
| * Bolt removal: | * Bolt removal: | ||
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| * High strength formulas (red) can be loosened with heat applied and a wrench while it’s hot (melts the threadlocker...temporarily. Let it cool and the threadlocker hardens again). | * High strength formulas (red) can be loosened with heat applied and a wrench while it’s hot (melts the threadlocker...temporarily. Let it cool and the threadlocker hardens again). | ||
| * Removing threadlock from bolts and threaded holes is best done with tap and dies. | * Removing threadlock from bolts and threaded holes is best done with tap and dies. | ||
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| ===== The FSM points out areas to use threadlocker on: ===== | ===== The FSM points out areas to use threadlocker on: ===== | ||
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| - | Based on article by olrump1 from the XLFORUM (([[http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1972860]])) | + | Based on article by olrump1 from the XLFORUM (([[https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-general-discussion-and-problems/183284-loctite-and-oiling-bolts-prior-to-torquing?t=1972860]])) |
| + | ====== Pipe Dope ====== | ||
| + | Effective as thread sealant especially on tapered thread fittings. \\ | ||
| + | {{:techtalk:ref:genmsr:pipe_dope_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Hippysmack)) \\ | ||
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