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techtalk:ref:genmsr32 [2019/01/09 01:17]
ixl2relax [REF: Shop Notes and Tips]
techtalk:ref:genmsr32 [2024/01/17 23:45] (current)
hippysmack
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   * Revolution Performance website doesn’t mention anything about heat cycling although they may do it there before shipping. But, they ship their engines dry so that doesn’t sound like it’s been run. They do say this: After passing all of our quality tests, your engine is covered by our Limited Warranty. ((http://​www.revperf.com/​engineRebuild.php))   * Revolution Performance website doesn’t mention anything about heat cycling although they may do it there before shipping. But, they ship their engines dry so that doesn’t sound like it’s been run. They do say this: After passing all of our quality tests, your engine is covered by our Limited Warranty. ((http://​www.revperf.com/​engineRebuild.php))
   * From NRHS: Run the bike for 1 minute, then shut it down and let it cool completely. Then run it for two minutes and let it cool completely. Then repeat for 3 and 4 minutes while letting it cool completely between intervals. Next, take it for a 20 mile ride and let it cool completely. Heat cycles are now complete.((http://​www.nrhsperformance.com/​NrhsInstructionSheet.pdf))   * From NRHS: Run the bike for 1 minute, then shut it down and let it cool completely. Then run it for two minutes and let it cool completely. Then repeat for 3 and 4 minutes while letting it cool completely between intervals. Next, take it for a 20 mile ride and let it cool completely. Heat cycles are now complete.((http://​www.nrhsperformance.com/​NrhsInstructionSheet.pdf))
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 ==== Heat Cycling CONS: ==== ==== Heat Cycling CONS: ====
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   * Arguments against the practice of heat cycling range from builder’s ideas that:   * Arguments against the practice of heat cycling range from builder’s ideas that:
     * General instructions are written for ham handed mechanics and do not apply to ‘real or good mechanics’,​ ((hcrashster from the XLFORUM))     * General instructions are written for ham handed mechanics and do not apply to ‘real or good mechanics’,​ ((hcrashster from the XLFORUM))
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   * Heat cycling is more of a performance trick rather than a build standard. (( einheit 13 from the XLFORUM)) And, in fairness to all, I might add that definition (while seemingly accurate) may be the root of the problem since it doesn'​t take a performance trick to make an engine run. While the fact that it may take a performance trick to make it run well is subjective to the builder/ owner especially without the smoking gun that everyone seems to be looking for. Without that smoking gun, a builder'​s belief and reason system is tested and not any builder I've ever met likes to change his opinions very easily, especially from things he's practiced for years.   * Heat cycling is more of a performance trick rather than a build standard. (( einheit 13 from the XLFORUM)) And, in fairness to all, I might add that definition (while seemingly accurate) may be the root of the problem since it doesn'​t take a performance trick to make an engine run. While the fact that it may take a performance trick to make it run well is subjective to the builder/ owner especially without the smoking gun that everyone seems to be looking for. Without that smoking gun, a builder'​s belief and reason system is tested and not any builder I've ever met likes to change his opinions very easily, especially from things he's practiced for years.
   * We all have our methods, techniques, and beliefs based on what we have experienced. That is a good thing, because it allows the creame to rise to the top. Nothing begats believers more than success. ​ ((56KHK from the XLFORUM)) ​   * We all have our methods, techniques, and beliefs based on what we have experienced. That is a good thing, because it allows the creame to rise to the top. Nothing begats believers more than success. ​ ((56KHK from the XLFORUM)) ​
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 This topic is a compilation of several XLFORUM threads on heat cycling: ​ This topic is a compilation of several XLFORUM threads on heat cycling: ​
-  * http://​xlforum.net/​forums/showthread.php?​t=1501831&​highlight=heat+cycle +  * https://www.xlforum.net/​forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/​sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/​ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/​138385-i-m-calling-bs-on-this-heat-cycle-myth?​t=1501831&​highlight=heat+cycle 
-  * http://​xlforum.net/​forums/showthread.php?​t=1794806&​highlight=heat+cycle +  * https://www.xlforum.net/​forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/​sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/​ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/​167015-heat-cycle-bs?​t=1794806&​highlight=heat+cycle 
-  * http://​xlforum.net/​forums/showthread.php?​t=1969636&​highlight=heat+cycle+  * https://www.xlforum.net/​forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/​sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/​ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/​182859-heat-cycle-bs-part-2?​t=1969636&​highlight=heat+cycle
  
 ==== Ring Micro-Welding:​ ==== ==== Ring Micro-Welding:​ ====
  
 Manufacturers and Industries alike condone the practice of Heat Cycling as a deterrent against micro-welding. Micro-Welding between rings and pistons are not a myth. ((norseXL ​ of the XLFORUM)) It is defined as adherence of sporadic particles of aluminum from the piston to the bottom side of the piston ring by SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers). ((http://​papers.sae.org/​960745/​))) Several other things can also cause micro welding, such as improper taper on face of ring, improper ring tension, improper ring material, improper clearance, improper assembly procedures/​specs and clearances, improper assembly lube, improper initial tuning, improper initial break in. Too much surface contact between a new ring and perfectly smooth bore can cause excessive friction and heat. ((XLXR from the XLFORUM)) piston lands too high on pistons on HP engine, improper clearance between ring and groove in cylinder, or incompatible materials with different coefficient of expansions. Piston and or rings got too hot from lean AF mixtures, timing too advanced, getting them too hot too soon can also cause it. ((XLXR from the XLFORUM)) The variables are so vast, even SAE concedes that because of the variables at large in normal settings, it is difficult to find the proof needed to get a better handle on the subject. ((http://​papers.sae.org/​960745/​)) So, SAE did a lab test and produced micro welding in a six cylinder high output 2 stroke water cooled engine in 30 minutes with silicon aluminum pistons and treated ductile iron rings running at 5,200 RPM and no break in time using an accelerated bench test in 1996.  ((http://​papers.sae.org/​960745/​)) No other evidence of testing for micro welding of rings has been found to be done by SAE. Obviously, proper heat cycling will not prevent micro welded rings when a multitude of other problems exist. ((XLXR from the XLFORUM)) ​ Manufacturers and Industries alike condone the practice of Heat Cycling as a deterrent against micro-welding. Micro-Welding between rings and pistons are not a myth. ((norseXL ​ of the XLFORUM)) It is defined as adherence of sporadic particles of aluminum from the piston to the bottom side of the piston ring by SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers). ((http://​papers.sae.org/​960745/​))) Several other things can also cause micro welding, such as improper taper on face of ring, improper ring tension, improper ring material, improper clearance, improper assembly procedures/​specs and clearances, improper assembly lube, improper initial tuning, improper initial break in. Too much surface contact between a new ring and perfectly smooth bore can cause excessive friction and heat. ((XLXR from the XLFORUM)) piston lands too high on pistons on HP engine, improper clearance between ring and groove in cylinder, or incompatible materials with different coefficient of expansions. Piston and or rings got too hot from lean AF mixtures, timing too advanced, getting them too hot too soon can also cause it. ((XLXR from the XLFORUM)) The variables are so vast, even SAE concedes that because of the variables at large in normal settings, it is difficult to find the proof needed to get a better handle on the subject. ((http://​papers.sae.org/​960745/​)) So, SAE did a lab test and produced micro welding in a six cylinder high output 2 stroke water cooled engine in 30 minutes with silicon aluminum pistons and treated ductile iron rings running at 5,200 RPM and no break in time using an accelerated bench test in 1996.  ((http://​papers.sae.org/​960745/​)) No other evidence of testing for micro welding of rings has been found to be done by SAE. Obviously, proper heat cycling will not prevent micro welded rings when a multitude of other problems exist. ((XLXR from the XLFORUM)) ​
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 ====== Breaking In Your Engine: ====== ====== Breaking In Your Engine: ======
- +  ​* In breaking in a new engine, you might hear from other owners how they tested their rev limiters, rode it fast and hard for however many miles or purposely stayed in stop and go traffic to simulate heat and cooling cycles. Just follow the MFGs recommendations from your owner’s manual (( NRHS Sales https://www.xlforum.net/​forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/​sportster-motorcycle-general-discussion-and-problems/​162796-proper-engine-break-in?​t=1748326&​highlight=engine+break+in)) and you’ll be fine. These are common instructions that are given to every new bike owner. It's just an easy way to say keep the heat down. ((ReddTigger ​https://www.xlforum.net/​forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/​sportster-motorcycle-general-discussion-and-problems/​162796-proper-engine-break-in?​t=1748326&​highlight=engine+break+in)) 
-  ​* In breaking in a new bike, you might hear from other owners how they tested their rev limiters, rode it fast and hard for however many miles or purposely stayed in stop and go traffic to simulate heat and cooling cycles. Just follow the MFGs recommendations from your owner’s manual (( NRHS Sales http://​xlforum.net/​forums/showthread.php?​t=1748326&​highlight=engine+break+in )) and you’ll be fine. These are common instructions that are given to every new bike owner. It's just an easy way to say keep the heat down. ((ReddTigger ​http://​xlforum.net/​forums/showthread.php?​t=1748326&​highlight=engine+break+in )) +  * Generally speaking, main thing is dont over rev it, dont under-rev and lug it and dont overheat it. ((Hopper  ​https://www.xlforum.net/​forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/​sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/​sportster-motorcycle-motor-top-end/​63439-engine-break-in-period?​t=390897&​highlight=engine+break+in))
-  * Generally speaking, main thing is dont over rev it, dont under-rev and lug it and dont overheat it. ((Hopper  ​http://​xlforum.net/​forums/showthread.php?​t=390897&​highlight=engine+break+in ​ ))+
   * An engine is said to be broken in by the first 500 miles by the MoCo. ((1998 HD XLH FSM))but for the first 50 miles, keep speed below 45MPH. For the first 500 miles, vary your speed, avoid steady speed on long distances and keep it under 60 MPH. FSM and Clymer are pretty much in agreement on this paragraph.   * An engine is said to be broken in by the first 500 miles by the MoCo. ((1998 HD XLH FSM))but for the first 50 miles, keep speed below 45MPH. For the first 500 miles, vary your speed, avoid steady speed on long distances and keep it under 60 MPH. FSM and Clymer are pretty much in agreement on this paragraph.
-  * Proper warm up is also imperative. Along with proper break in and getting in the habit of allowing the motor to warm up properly before any ride will go a long way in giving you years of trouble free performance. ((Desertfox ​http://​xlforum.net/​forums/showthread.php?​t=1748326&​highlight=engine+break+in )) +  * Proper warm up is also imperative. Along with proper break in and getting in the habit of allowing the motor to warm up properly before any ride will go a long way in giving you years of trouble free performance. ((Desertfox ​https://www.xlforum.net/​forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/​sportster-motorcycle-general-discussion-and-problems/​162796-proper-engine-break-in?​t=1748326&​highlight=engine+break+in)) 
-  * Before changing exhaust and/or other mods that could change the air/ fuel mixture or exert different than intended pressures on the engine, break it in first, then pay your Harley tax. ((papas ​http://​xlforum.net/​forums/showthread.php?​t=1573751&​highlight=engine+break+in)) +  * Before changing exhaust and/or other mods that could change the air/ fuel mixture or exert different than intended pressures on the engine, break it in first, then pay your Harley tax. ((papas ​https://www.xlforum.net/​forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/​sportster-motorcycle-intake-and-exhaust/​sportster-motorcycle-air-intake-carburetor-efi-fuel-and-exhaust/​145007-engine-break-in-exhaust-re-map?​t=1573751&​highlight=engine+break+in)) 
-  * Change Oil during and after break-in. The motor will put lots of metal in the filter in the first couple of hundred miles. ((Turbota ​http://​xlforum.net/​forums/showthread.php?​t=7261&​highlight=engine+break+in)) Dino (mineral based) oil is the widely accepted type of oil for use in breaking in a new engine. You may want to change oil and filter several times during break-in if you like. It won't hurt anything but it's recommended after the first 500 miles. After the first 2,500 miles, you can swap to synthetic oil if you choose. +  * Change Oil during and after break-in. The motor will put lots of metal in the filter in the first couple of hundred miles. ((Turbota ​https://www.xlforum.net/​forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/​sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/​sportster-motorcycle-engine-conversions/​4753-conversion-engine-break-in?​t=7261&​highlight=engine+break+in)) Dino (mineral based) oil is the widely accepted type of oil for use in breaking in a new engine. You may want to change oil and filter several times during break-in if you like. It won't hurt anything but it's recommended after the first 500 miles. After the first 2,500 miles, you can swap to synthetic oil if you choose. 
-  * Noises during break-in: Keep the little stuff adjusted and fluids topped off. Run a good brand of gas and keep the revs within a good range without bogging it. ((sportysrock  ​http://​xlforum.net/​forums/showthread.php?​t=26029&​highlight=engine+break+in)). Sportsters are noisy....If she sounds like a sewing machine with dual exhaust, you're fine. ((cantolina  ​http://​xlforum.net/​forums/showthread.php?​t=26029&​highlight=engine+break+in))+  * Noises during break-in: Keep the little stuff adjusted and fluids topped off. Run a good brand of gas and keep the revs within a good range without bogging it. ((sportysrock  ​https://www.xlforum.net/​forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/​sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/​sportster-motorcycle-motor-top-end/​15564-new-engine-break-in-noises?​t=26029&​highlight=engine+break+in)). Sportsters are noisy....If she sounds like a sewing machine with dual exhaust, you're fine. ((cantolina  ​https://www.xlforum.net/​forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/​sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/​sportster-motorcycle-motor-top-end/​15564-new-engine-break-in-noises?​t=26029&​highlight=engine+break+in))
     * There may be noises of the different parts trying to mesh together, lifters may be noisy until fully pumped up ,etc. If engine noises persist, see engine_noises in the troubleshooting section. ​     * There may be noises of the different parts trying to mesh together, lifters may be noisy until fully pumped up ,etc. If engine noises persist, see engine_noises in the troubleshooting section. ​
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