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techtalk:ref:oil10 [2019/06/22 00:36] hippysmack [Wet Sumping Due to High Revs] |
techtalk:ref:oil10 [2020/05/08 01:14] hippysmack [Wet Sumping] |
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| ====== REF: Oiling & Lubrication ====== | ====== REF: Oiling & Lubrication ====== | ||
| ====== Wet Sumping ====== | ====== Wet Sumping ====== | ||
| - | See also [[techtalk:ref:oil05#engine_and_primary_oil_system_modifications|Engine and Primary Oil System Modifications]] in the REF section of the Sportsterpedia. \\ | + | See also in the REF section of the Sportsterpedia: \\ |
| + | * [[techtalk:ref:engmech04|Evo Crankcase Pressure]] | ||
| + | * [[techtalk:ref:oil05#engine_and_primary_oil_system_modifications|Engine and Primary Oil System Modifications]] | ||
| + | * [[techtalk:ref:engmech05#breather_venting_relocation|Breather Venting / Relocation]] | ||
| Wet sumping is a condition between the flywheels and the scavenge passage. \\ | Wet sumping is a condition between the flywheels and the scavenge passage. \\ | ||
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| Acceleration is hampered until the oil clears the crank area. \\ | Acceleration is hampered until the oil clears the crank area. \\ | ||
| - | **Known causes of wet sumping during engine down time**: \\ | + | Engine oil sumping can be broken down into two catagories. \\ |
| + | 1. Wetsumping \\ | ||
| + | 2. Sit sumping \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | **Known causes of wet sumping during engine operation**: \\ | ||
| + | * **Oil Line(s)**: | ||
| + | * An oil may be pinched / collapsed, or stopped up. \\ A blockage in the return line will not allow the scavenge pump to remove the oil from the sump or move it out fast enough to keep up with feed oil from the pump. | ||
| + | * On ironhead engines with the oil filter in the return line, a stopped up oil filter can hinder adequate oil flow out of the engine. | ||
| + | * A blockage in the vent line from the oil tank to the cam chest can prevent proper oil return pressure from going to the oil tank. | ||
| + | * **86-91 engine oil pressure regulator**: | ||
| + | * The discharge from the relief valve drains down into the gearcase. \\ Then that 'extra' oil and is routed to the crankcase sump through a hole in the case wall and gets pumped back to the tank. \\ The 'extra' oil adds volume to the sump, thus adds towards a wet sumping condition. \\ A weak spring or a bad seat at the plunger will cause the regulator to open more often and / or unnecessarily increasing the possibility of wet sumping while riding. | ||
| + | |||
| + | |1986-90 Oil Filter Mount ((photo Hippysmack of the XLFORUM))| | ||
| + | |{{:techtalk:evo:oil:86-90_oil_pressure_regulator_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| + | |||
| + | ====== Sit Sumpimg ====== | ||
| + | |||
| + | **Known causes of sit sumping during engine down time**: \\ | ||
| This is simply oil from the tank draining slowly back down into the crankcase while the bike is parked for any length of time. ((Hopper of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=518948&highlight=cam+chest+breather)) \\ | This is simply oil from the tank draining slowly back down into the crankcase while the bike is parked for any length of time. ((Hopper of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=518948&highlight=cam+chest+breather)) \\ | ||
| When you start the engine, the excess oil in the crankcase is fired out the breather, onto the floor, (or into your air-filter on post-79 models). \\ | When you start the engine, the excess oil in the crankcase is fired out the breather, onto the floor, (or into your air-filter on post-79 models). \\ | ||
| Line 46: | Line 66: | ||
| |{{:techtalk:evo:oil:l87-90_check_ball_and_spring_1_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:evo:oil:l87-90_check_ball_and_spring_5_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:evo:oil:l87-90_check_ball_and_spring_1_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:evo:oil:l87-90_check_ball_and_spring_5_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| - | |||
| - | **Known causes of wet sumping during engine operation**: \\ | ||
| - | * **Oil Line(s)**: | ||
| - | * An oil may be pinched / collapsed, or stopped up. \\ A blockage in the return line will not allow the scavenge pump to remove the oil from the sump or move it out fast enough to keep up with feed oil from the pump. | ||
| - | * On ironhead engines with the oil filter in the return line, a stopped up oil filter can hinder adequate oil flow out of the engine. | ||
| - | * A blockage in the vent line from the oil tank to the cam chest can prevent proper oil return pressure from going to the oil tank. | ||
| - | * **86-91 engine oil pressure regulator**: | ||
| - | * The discharge from the relief valve drains down into the gearcase. \\ Then that 'extra' oil and is routed to the crankcase sump through a hole in the case wall and gets pumped back to the tank. \\ The 'extra' oil adds volume to the sump, thus adds towards a wet sumping condition. \\ A weak spring or a bad seat at the plunger will cause the regulator to open more often and / or unnecessarily increasing the possibility of wet sumping while riding. | ||
| - | |||
| - | |1986-90 Oil Filter Mount ((photo Hippysmack of the XLFORUM))| | ||
| - | |{{:techtalk:evo:oil:86-90_oil_pressure_regulator_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| - | |||
| - | |||
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| * Overfilling the oil tank can increase wet sumping: | * Overfilling the oil tank can increase wet sumping: | ||
| * If you fill the tank (improperly), this will result in too much oil in the engine. \\ It can also result in oil blowing out the oil tank cap or breather(s). | * If you fill the tank (improperly), this will result in too much oil in the engine. \\ It can also result in oil blowing out the oil tank cap or breather(s). | ||
| + | |||
| + | **Lower oil level in the tank after a hard ride**. \\ | ||
| + | A good way to tell if your engine is wet sumping (during a hard ride) is to check the oil level right after a leisurely ride. ((NRHS Sales of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1738909&highlight=Oil+Usage)) \\ | ||
| + | Then go out and thrash the Hell out of the bike, immediately shut the bike off and check the oil level again. \\ | ||
| + | If it is a lot lower, then it is wet sumping. \\ | ||
| **A sudden loss of power while riding**. \\ | **A sudden loss of power while riding**. \\ | ||
| Line 100: | Line 112: | ||
| * The scavenger pump picks up the oil and sends it to the oil tank. The hotter the oil, and the more air bubbles in the oil, the harder it is for the scavenger pump to move the oil. So, the oil collects in the crankcase even more. | * The scavenger pump picks up the oil and sends it to the oil tank. The hotter the oil, and the more air bubbles in the oil, the harder it is for the scavenger pump to move the oil. So, the oil collects in the crankcase even more. | ||
| * The symptoms are sudden dwindling of power and the oil fogging out of the (breather) vent. ((iNSaNeSHaNe of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2073512&page=10)) \\ Simply slowing the rpm can make it quit very quickly. \\ When shut off immediately during wet sumping, you may check the oil dipstick to find the oil level low or almost dry. \\ Fire it back up and it should fill the tank almost full again. | * The symptoms are sudden dwindling of power and the oil fogging out of the (breather) vent. ((iNSaNeSHaNe of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2073512&page=10)) \\ Simply slowing the rpm can make it quit very quickly. \\ When shut off immediately during wet sumping, you may check the oil dipstick to find the oil level low or almost dry. \\ Fire it back up and it should fill the tank almost full again. | ||
| + | * When sumping, it may feek like the motor sort of seized up. ((BWP 5p of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=75740&highlight=reed+valve&page=4)) \\ When it happens you know it! \\ Very sluggish, won't pull and higher oil temp. | ||
| * The '04 and up Sportsters have had the oil return system redesigned. There are several people having heat and oil consumption issues with 883-1200+ conversions and there are stock bikes having heat and oil consumption issues as well. The 883's and 1200's seem to wet sump worse than years before 2004. Even prior to 2004 Sportster engines were known to wet sump badly under high rpm conditions. | * The '04 and up Sportsters have had the oil return system redesigned. There are several people having heat and oil consumption issues with 883-1200+ conversions and there are stock bikes having heat and oil consumption issues as well. The 883's and 1200's seem to wet sump worse than years before 2004. Even prior to 2004 Sportster engines were known to wet sump badly under high rpm conditions. | ||
| * The '04 and up bikes are having issues with the return from the heads to the crankcase. The pressure from the crankcase is forced UP thru the passages and the push rod covers to go out the head breathers. This impedes the oil trying to go down. The oil sits in the head longer collecting more heat and getting thinner. Eventually, the oil pools in the head deep enough to cover the valve seals which are not designed to be submerged in oil. The piston sucks the thinned and hot oil thru the valve seal and guide during the intake stroke causing the engine to burn excessive amounts of oil. | * The '04 and up bikes are having issues with the return from the heads to the crankcase. The pressure from the crankcase is forced UP thru the passages and the push rod covers to go out the head breathers. This impedes the oil trying to go down. The oil sits in the head longer collecting more heat and getting thinner. Eventually, the oil pools in the head deep enough to cover the valve seals which are not designed to be submerged in oil. The piston sucks the thinned and hot oil thru the valve seal and guide during the intake stroke causing the engine to burn excessive amounts of oil. | ||
