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techtalk:ref:oil10 [2019/06/22 05:14] hippysmack [Wet Sumping Due to High Revs] |
techtalk:ref:oil10 [2020/05/08 01:15] hippysmack [Sit Sumpimg] |
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| ====== REF: Oiling & Lubrication ====== | ====== REF: Oiling & Lubrication ====== | ||
| ====== Wet Sumping ====== | ====== Wet Sumping ====== | ||
| - | See also [[techtalk:ref:oil05#engine_and_primary_oil_system_modifications|Engine and Primary Oil System Modifications]] in the REF section of the Sportsterpedia. \\ | + | See also in the REF section of the Sportsterpedia: \\ |
| + | * [[techtalk:ref:engmech04|Evo Crankcase Pressure]] | ||
| + | * [[techtalk:ref:oil05#engine_and_primary_oil_system_modifications|Engine and Primary Oil System Modifications]] | ||
| + | * [[techtalk:ref:engmech05#breather_venting_relocation|Breather Venting / Relocation]] | ||
| Wet sumping is a condition between the flywheels and the scavenge passage. \\ | Wet sumping is a condition between the flywheels and the scavenge passage. \\ | ||
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| Acceleration is hampered until the oil clears the crank area. \\ | Acceleration is hampered until the oil clears the crank area. \\ | ||
| - | **Known causes of wet sumping during engine down time**: \\ | + | Engine oil sumping can be broken down into two catagories. \\ |
| - | This is simply oil from the tank draining slowly back down into the crankcase while the bike is parked for any length of time. ((Hopper of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=518948&highlight=cam+chest+breather)) \\ | + | 1. Wetsumping \\ |
| - | When you start the engine, the excess oil in the crankcase is fired out the breather, onto the floor, (or into your air-filter on post-79 models). \\ | + | 2. Sit sumping \\ |
| - | * **Oil Pump**: | + | |
| - | * Worn / damaged oil pump scavenge gears or gerotors (respectively). \\ The oil pump can't return as much oil to the oil tank as it is receiving from the feed side of the pump. | + | |
| - | * Damaged teeth or broken gear keys can stop the movement of the teeth thus stopping the scavenge side from working. \\ It's entirely possible for the feed side to work with the scavenge side not working. \\ (but that won't last long without something detrimental happening) | + | |
| - | * Worn / damaged seals (or plates respectively) between the scavenge and feed side of the oil pump. \\ Gravity pressure is always present on the feed side of the pump. \\ If the seal between the feed and scavenge side is compromised, that gravity oil will seep past the scavenge side and into the engine. | + | |
| - | * **Check Ball / Check Valve**: \\ All Sportsters have some sort of an oil check system in place. \\ The check ball can be thought of as the on / off valve for oil supply into the engine. \\ On 57-85 engines, the check is in the oil pump and on 86 and up engines, the check is in the oil filter pad. \\ The main objective of the oil check is to close the oil passage during engine shutdown to stop a wet sump condition. \\ Occasionally the check gets weak or damaged and allows oil to bypass it during shut down. \\ This will cause wet sumping. | + | |
| - | * The 57-76 check ball seat in the oil pump body can get dirty and / or pitted from usage and debris. | + | |
| - | * The spring (whether check ball or valve) can break or weaken which won't push the unit against the seat properly. \\ Without adequate seat pressure, oil will bypass into the engine. | + | |
| - | + | ||
| - | The check valve is spring loaded. Debris can lodge in the spring seat and keep it open. \\ | + | |
| - | The spring can also get weak with wear and the cup seat may not sit properly to seal off. \\ | + | |
| - | + | ||
| - | |77-E87 check valve ((photo by Hippysmack))|Check valve in 77-85 oil pump ((photo by Hippysmack))|Check valve in 86-E87 filter pad ((photo by Hippysmack))| | + | |
| - | |{{:techtalk:evo:oil:77-e87_oil_check_valve_1_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_pump_check_valve_installed_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:evo:oil:86-e87_oil_check_valve_location_2_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | + | |
| - | + | ||
| - | A small particle of debris may be lodged at the seat position of the check ball keeping the passage open. \\ | + | |
| - | The check ball may have rings formed on it at the seat position by the seating action itself over time. \\ | + | |
| - | If the ball doesn't fall back on the ringed area every time the engine shuts down, oil will leak into the groove and then the engine. \\ | + | |
| - | A check ball that is no longer perfectly round will not sit properly on the round seat and oil will leak past it into the engine. \\ | + | |
| - | + | ||
| - | |{{:techtalk:evo:oil:l87-90_check_ball_and_spring_1_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:evo:oil:l87-90_check_ball_and_spring_5_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | + | |
| **Known causes of wet sumping during engine operation**: \\ | **Known causes of wet sumping during engine operation**: \\ | ||
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| |1986-90 Oil Filter Mount ((photo Hippysmack of the XLFORUM))| | |1986-90 Oil Filter Mount ((photo Hippysmack of the XLFORUM))| | ||
| |{{:techtalk:evo:oil:86-90_oil_pressure_regulator_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:evo:oil:86-90_oil_pressure_regulator_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
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| * Overfilling the oil tank can increase wet sumping: | * Overfilling the oil tank can increase wet sumping: | ||
| * If you fill the tank (improperly), this will result in too much oil in the engine. \\ It can also result in oil blowing out the oil tank cap or breather(s). | * If you fill the tank (improperly), this will result in too much oil in the engine. \\ It can also result in oil blowing out the oil tank cap or breather(s). | ||
| + | |||
| + | **Lower oil level in the tank after a hard ride**. \\ | ||
| + | A good way to tell if your engine is wet sumping (during a hard ride) is to check the oil level right after a leisurely ride. ((NRHS Sales of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1738909&highlight=Oil+Usage)) \\ | ||
| + | Then go out and thrash the Hell out of the bike, immediately shut the bike off and check the oil level again. \\ | ||
| + | If it is a lot lower, then it is wet sumping. \\ | ||
| **A sudden loss of power while riding**. \\ | **A sudden loss of power while riding**. \\ | ||
