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techtalk:ref:susp01 [2024/01/20 19:40] hippysmack [HD Recommendations] |
techtalk:ref:susp01 [2024/01/20 19:52] (current) hippysmack [HD Recommendations] |
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| ====== Fork Oil ======= | ====== Fork Oil ======= | ||
| ===== HD Recommendations ===== | ===== HD Recommendations ===== | ||
| - | * The MoCo specifies HD Type B or E (and respective equivalents) fork oil depending on year model. | + | * The MoCo specifies HD Type B or E (and respective equivalents) fork oil depending on year model. \\ Below is some general information gathered by XLForum members. However, the actual data on HD forks oils has never been published or verified by HD. |
| * HD doesn't divulge the highly classified weight of their fork oil. \\ Some say type E is equivalent to 10W, some say it's equivalent to 15W oil or more from other manufacturers. \\ Just keep in mind when changing fork oil, you don't want to mix different used oils together with new oil. \\ Drain and clean all previous oil before installing new oil especially if previous oil is not known. | * HD doesn't divulge the highly classified weight of their fork oil. \\ Some say type E is equivalent to 10W, some say it's equivalent to 15W oil or more from other manufacturers. \\ Just keep in mind when changing fork oil, you don't want to mix different used oils together with new oil. \\ Drain and clean all previous oil before installing new oil especially if previous oil is not known. | ||
| * HD has, however, confirmed that type B (0-10W) fork oil is lighter than Type E (5-20). ((Q&A question 1 http://www.harley-davidson.com/store/fork-oil)) \\ That being said, if you want to stay with HD oils, you can mix B and E for an "X" weight of your choice to tune your forks. \\ All HD fork oils are petroleum based, non-synthetic oils. | * HD has, however, confirmed that type B (0-10W) fork oil is lighter than Type E (5-20). ((Q&A question 1 http://www.harley-davidson.com/store/fork-oil)) \\ That being said, if you want to stay with HD oils, you can mix B and E for an "X" weight of your choice to tune your forks. \\ All HD fork oils are petroleum based, non-synthetic oils. | ||
| * Also, the kinematic viscosity (at 40°C [mm2/s = cSt]) was mentioned on the HD site for Type E. ((Q&A https://www.harley-davidson.com/store/fork-oil-pa-17-9988480--1)) ((link provided by shanneba of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/forum-functions/sportsterpedia-com-admin/191119-send-a-note-to-sportsterpedia-admin/page10?t=2039687&page=10)) \\ Mid-point -46, minimum- 41.4, maximum- 50.6 \\ (ISO 3448 Viscosity class ISO VG 46, ISO VG 46 = SAE 15) | * Also, the kinematic viscosity (at 40°C [mm2/s = cSt]) was mentioned on the HD site for Type E. ((Q&A https://www.harley-davidson.com/store/fork-oil-pa-17-9988480--1)) ((link provided by shanneba of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/forum-functions/sportsterpedia-com-admin/191119-send-a-note-to-sportsterpedia-admin/page10?t=2039687&page=10)) \\ Mid-point -46, minimum- 41.4, maximum- 50.6 \\ (ISO 3448 Viscosity class ISO VG 46, ISO VG 46 = SAE 15) | ||
| - | * Additional information provided by Tomcatt of the XLForum (through conversation with tech guys at Red Line Oils) | + | * Additional information provided by Tomcatt of the XLForum (through conversation with tech guys at Red Line Oils) |
| * Harley Davidson type "B" = 34.3cSt@40°C | * Harley Davidson type "B" = 34.3cSt@40°C | ||
| * Harley Davidson type "E" = 39.2cSt@40°C | * Harley Davidson type "E" = 39.2cSt@40°C | ||
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| * If you want to use aftermarket fork oil besides the HD brand, \\ It's best to start with an oil weight that has been proven to work in most general situations. \\ The general preferred weight of fork oil is 15(W) on the XLFORUM in whatever flavor you like. \\ So, start by using 15(W) oil as noted and test it yourself. \\ Depending on your weight, the bike's weight including add-ons and baggage, shocks and etc., \\ You might swap to a lower weight fork oil for softer or a heavier weight fork oil for stiffer fork action. | * If you want to use aftermarket fork oil besides the HD brand, \\ It's best to start with an oil weight that has been proven to work in most general situations. \\ The general preferred weight of fork oil is 15(W) on the XLFORUM in whatever flavor you like. \\ So, start by using 15(W) oil as noted and test it yourself. \\ Depending on your weight, the bike's weight including add-ons and baggage, shocks and etc., \\ You might swap to a lower weight fork oil for softer or a heavier weight fork oil for stiffer fork action. | ||
| - | * Generally, it's recommended to start with stock oil height. \\ Test ride, if bottoming out, then add oil. \\ Generally, long forks can add up to 2 oz, short fork 1 oz extra oil. \\ Anything more than that tends to cause hydro locking, so it is best to add just enough oil to control bottoming, which may be less then 1 or 2 oz. \\ Generally, if adding more oil than above to control bottoming, (and assuming preload and oil viscosity is correct), \\ The main spring is too light and needs replacing. ((XLXR of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1863121&page=8)) | + | * Generally, it's recommended to start with stock oil height. \\ Test ride, if bottoming out, then add oil. \\ Generally, long forks can add up to 2 oz, short fork 1 oz extra oil. \\ Anything more than that tends to cause hydro locking, so it is best to add just enough oil to control bottoming, which may be less then 1 or 2 oz. \\ Generally, if adding more oil than above to control bottoming, (and assuming preload and oil viscosity is correct), \\ The main spring is too light and needs replacing. ((XLXR of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-suspension-frame-forks-handlebars-fuel-tank-oil-tank-fenders/173599-2014-xl1200t-suspension/page8?t=1863121&page=8)) |
| - | * It's not recommended to use any less than stock oil levels in the forks. \\ The less oil, the quicker it will get contaminated and/or break down. \\ (as well as less resistance to heat build up and more likely to have foaming and cavitation problems) \\ The minimum oil level that won't start sucking air in to the damper tube is not known. ((XLXR of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1863121&page=12)) | + | * It's not recommended to use any less than stock oil levels in the forks. \\ The less oil, the quicker it will get contaminated and/or break down. \\ (as well as less resistance to heat build up and more likely to have foaming and cavitation problems) \\ The minimum oil level that won't start sucking air in to the damper tube is not known. ((XLXR of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-suspension-frame-forks-handlebars-fuel-tank-oil-tank-fenders/173599-2014-xl1200t-suspension/page12?t=1863121&page=12)) |
| * A lubricant's viscosity varies with temperature. \\ In some areas, the fork oil is already heated up past 100°F by the sun before you start to ride which lowers viscosity and softens the fork action. \\ Likewise, in the winter months, your forks may never reach up to the low end of the viscosity chart below. \\ (which keeps the viscosity high thus stiffening fork action) | * A lubricant's viscosity varies with temperature. \\ In some areas, the fork oil is already heated up past 100°F by the sun before you start to ride which lowers viscosity and softens the fork action. \\ Likewise, in the winter months, your forks may never reach up to the low end of the viscosity chart below. \\ (which keeps the viscosity high thus stiffening fork action) | ||
| * Below is a sample list of alternative fork oils and their published viscosities. \\ Some aftermarket brands include the words "Type E" or "Type B" on their label. \\ Some may say that's to make you feel like your getting the same quality or "Spec" as HD fork oil. \\ (especially since there are 26 letters in the alphabet and they chose the same two as HD) \\ After reading through their TDS sheets, \\ It's obvious that different fork oil manufacturers have a different idea of "exactly" what viscosity that HD "B" or "E" actually is. \\ Most brands have their own special additives to condition seals, control foaming, oxidation, rust, corrosion and etc. \\ These additives play their own role in viscosity at certain temperature levels. | * Below is a sample list of alternative fork oils and their published viscosities. \\ Some aftermarket brands include the words "Type E" or "Type B" on their label. \\ Some may say that's to make you feel like your getting the same quality or "Spec" as HD fork oil. \\ (especially since there are 26 letters in the alphabet and they chose the same two as HD) \\ After reading through their TDS sheets, \\ It's obvious that different fork oil manufacturers have a different idea of "exactly" what viscosity that HD "B" or "E" actually is. \\ Most brands have their own special additives to condition seals, control foaming, oxidation, rust, corrosion and etc. \\ These additives play their own role in viscosity at certain temperature levels. | ||
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| * So viscosity really is a 'buyer beware' subject. \\ And it's trial and error to fine tune to your specific needs/ wants/ riding style. \\ The figures on the chart below are subject to change by the respective manufacturers. \\ And they are meant as a learning tool of what you are actually buying as opposed to what you are being told you are getting. \\ Check the labels and current SDS/ TDS data before relying on the fact that "this works for the other guy". \\ Rely on what works best for you regardless of what the data sheets say. | * So viscosity really is a 'buyer beware' subject. \\ And it's trial and error to fine tune to your specific needs/ wants/ riding style. \\ The figures on the chart below are subject to change by the respective manufacturers. \\ And they are meant as a learning tool of what you are actually buying as opposed to what you are being told you are getting. \\ Check the labels and current SDS/ TDS data before relying on the fact that "this works for the other guy". \\ Rely on what works best for you regardless of what the data sheets say. | ||
| * Many aftermarket companies will publish their data version of Harley Davidson fork oil. \\ Although there may be some truth in their data, there also be a lot of embellishment. \\ Be aware that some of their data is simply tossed around from one site to another (much like rumors go in sewing circles). \\ The only way for you to actually know the specs on Harley fork oil is for __you__ to have it tested at a reputable lab. \\ Don't depend on "They" for historical data for __your__ bike. | * Many aftermarket companies will publish their data version of Harley Davidson fork oil. \\ Although there may be some truth in their data, there also be a lot of embellishment. \\ Be aware that some of their data is simply tossed around from one site to another (much like rumors go in sewing circles). \\ The only way for you to actually know the specs on Harley fork oil is for __you__ to have it tested at a reputable lab. \\ Don't depend on "They" for historical data for __your__ bike. | ||
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| ====== Fork Oil Viscosity Charts ====== | ====== Fork Oil Viscosity Charts ====== | ||
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| ^ Brand^ Viscosity^ @ 40°C (104°F)^ @ 100°C (212°F)^ Index^ Color^ | ^ Brand^ Viscosity^ @ 40°C (104°F)^ @ 100°C (212°F)^ Index^ Color^ | ||
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| - | ^Harley Davidson^Type E ((independent testing not affiliated with Harley Davidson - shanneba of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showpost.php?p=5740911&postcount=1))^41.14^7.72^160^ ^ | + | ^Harley Davidson^Type E ((independent testing not affiliated with Harley Davidson - shanneba of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-suspension-frame-forks-handlebars-fuel-tank-oil-tank-fenders/196462-what-is-harley-type-e-fork-oil?postcount=1#post5740911))^41.14^7.72^160^ ^ |
| |Maxima((Maxima fork oil http://www.maximausa.com/product/fork-oil/))(petro)| 5wt| 16.2| 4.41| 202| Clear | | |Maxima((Maxima fork oil http://www.maximausa.com/product/fork-oil/))(petro)| 5wt| 16.2| 4.41| 202| Clear | | ||
| | | 10wt| 37.4| 7.72| 182| Clear | | | | 10wt| 37.4| 7.72| 182| Clear | | ||
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| ===== HD Compared to Redline ===== | ===== HD Compared to Redline ===== | ||
| - | Independent testing (not affiliated with Harley Davidson) was done on HD Type E fork oil. ((shanneba of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showpost.php?p=5740911&postcount=1)) \\ | + | Independent testing (not affiliated with Harley Davidson) was done on HD Type E fork oil. ((shanneba of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-suspension-frame-forks-handlebars-fuel-tank-oil-tank-fenders/196462-what-is-harley-type-e-fork-oil?postcount=1#post5740911)) \\ |
| Based on the data from that testing, the chart below was created using the [[https://widman.biz/English/Calculators/Graph.html|Widman "Graph your oils"]] web page. \\ | Based on the data from that testing, the chart below was created using the [[https://widman.biz/English/Calculators/Graph.html|Widman "Graph your oils"]] web page. \\ | ||
| The chart is a comparison of HD Type E, Red Line Medium, Red Line Heavy and the 75% RL Medium / 25% Red Line Heavy fork oils. \\ | The chart is a comparison of HD Type E, Red Line Medium, Red Line Heavy and the 75% RL Medium / 25% Red Line Heavy fork oils. \\ | ||
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| This should give a more consistent suspension at lower temps. Again, trust your own results / testing. \\ | This should give a more consistent suspension at lower temps. Again, trust your own results / testing. \\ | ||
| - | {{:techtalk:ref:susp:harley_type_e_compared_to_redline_fork_oils_by_shanneba.jpg?direct&700|}} ((chart by shanneba of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showpost.php?p=5740911&postcount=1)) | + | {{:techtalk:ref:susp:harley_type_e_compared_to_redline_fork_oils_by_shanneba.jpg?direct&700|}} ((chart by shanneba of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-suspension-frame-forks-handlebars-fuel-tank-oil-tank-fenders/196462-what-is-harley-type-e-fork-oil?postcount=1#post5740911)) |
