Differences

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--- techtalk:ref:wheels03 [2020/06/12 04:17]
hippysmack
+++ techtalk:ref:wheels03 [2024/05/23 04:33] (current)
hippysmack [Example of outdated (new) bottle of brake fluid]
@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 ====== Brake Fluid ======
+===== Brake Fluid Shelf Life =====
+==== Subdocuments ====
+  * [[techtalk:ref:wheels03a|Example of an outdated (new) bottle of brake fluid]]
+  * **Storage Area**:
+    * Store undercover, away from moisture and direct sunlight in well-ventilated area.
+  * **Storage Temp**:
+    * The majority of brake fluid manufacturers suggest storing unopened sealed containers between 20C (68F) and 40C (104F). \\ Note: different brands list different storage temps so check your fluid manufacturer for actual storage temp suggested.
+  * **Storage Time**:
+    * The storage time (or shelf life) includes from the time the bottle was sealed at the manufacturer, not when you bought it.
+    * Some brands publicize the shelf life of their brake fluid but most do not.
+    * As can be seen from the chart below, different brands will list different shelf life of their brake fluid.
+  * **Lot Number**:
+    * Every bottle of brake fluid should have a lot number printed somewhere on the label or bottle. \\ The lot# should include the date it was bottled. \\ The date within the lot# may be variations of Month-Day-Year or a Julian style date code.
+    * If the lot number is faded or unreadable, don't buy/use it. It may have already died on the shelf before you bought it.
+      * If ordering thru mail, check the lot# when you receive it.
+    * You can call the manufacturer and ask for replacement or refund if it's past the shelf life date (or just dispose the bottle)
+    * You can also call them and ask how to read the date on the bottle.
+The chart below was compiled from Technical Data Sheets (TDS), read as public flyers, from different brake fluid manufacturers. \\
+No endorsements are implied. All brake fluids brands are not listed. The list is for shelf life comparison (or not) only. \\
+Brands (only) are listed since each brand below listed the same storage info for each DOT type fluid they sell. \\
+|Brand|Date Code on Bottle|Unopened Shelf Life|
+|ACDelco|  |At least five years. ((https://acdelco.com.au/gm-b2cau/cms/pdf/Flyers/ACDelco%20Global%20DOT%204%20Brake%20Fluid%20(Sell%20Sheet).pdf))|
+|  Notes|When stored under appropriate conditions in original closed containers at max temp of 40°C.||
+|ATE|  |Up to 5 years from Born On date in the original sealed container. ((ATE TDS PDF 2-3-2022 https://www.ate-brakes.com/media/3794/ate_td009_dot5-1-web.pdf))|
+|Bardahl|  |2 Years in original container. ((https://bardahl.fr/Bardahl/media/Files/5912_en_tds.pdf))|
+|Belray|XXXXJJJY|3 Years from Born On date in original sealed container. ((RandallM of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/203583-dot5-fluid-color-question/page2))|
+|  Notes|Example date code printed on bottle (XXXX = internal use, JJJ = Julian date, Y = year). \\ So a lot# of (80482867) was made October 13, 2017||
+|Castrol|  |Not specified in TDS ((https://www.castrol.com/content/dam/castrol/country-sites/en_mm/myanmar/home/pdf/brake-dot-fluid-4.pdf))|
+|Dento|  |((https://totachi.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/TDS_Dento_Brake_Fluid_DOT4.pdf))|
+|DuPont|  |((https://www.dupont.com/content/dam/dupont/amer/us/en/mobility/public/documents/en/DP09-A_Brake_Fluids_Product_Sheet_NA.pdf))|
+|Genuine Chemistry (GC)|Not specified in TDS ((https://genuine-chemistry.com/wp-content/uploads/tds/TDS-GC-Brake-Fluid-v2201.pdf))|
+|Gulf|  | Not specified in TDS ((https://euassets.gulfoilltd.com/PDS-DPD/pds/Gulf%20Brake%20Fluid%20DOT%203_PDS_86.pdfhttps://euassets.gulfoilltd.com/PDS-DPD/pds/Gulf%20Brake%20Fluid%20DOT%203_PDS_86.pdf))|
+|HD Expert|  |Up to one year after the date of manufacture in original sealed container. ((https://lubejunction.com/wp-content/uploads/tech_specs/TDS-Brake-Clutch-Fluid-DOT-4.pdf))|
+|Lucas|  |Not specified in TDS ((https://www.lucasoil.com/pdf/TDS_BrakeFluid_DOT4.pdf))|
+|Mobile|YYYY.MM.DD.D|3 Years from Born On date in original sealed container. ((Mobile TDS PDF copyright 2017))|
+|MOL|  |3 Years from Born On date in original sealed container. ((https://mollubricants.com/images/content/LUB_repo/TDS_MOL%20DOT%205_1_GB.pdf))|
+|Morris|  |Not specified in TDS ((https://uklubricants.agcoparts.com/downloads/tds_brakefluid.pdf))|
+|Prestone|  |Not specified in TDS ((https://prestone.com/product/prestone-dot-4-brake-fluid/))|
+|Shell|  |Not specified in TDS ((https://shellcarcareproducts.com/files/products/tds/shell-brake-clutch-fluid-dot-4-tds-en(2).pdf))|
+|Spec Oil|  |Not specified in TDS ((https://specoils.co.za/pdf/engine-oil/BRAKE%20FLUID%20DOT%204%20TDS.pdf))|
+|Veedol|  |Not specified in TDS ((https://www.veedol.ae/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Veedol-DOT-3-TDS-2020.pdf))|
+===== When to Check or Change Brake Fluid =====
+DOT3,4 and 5.1 Brake fluids tend to absorb humidity from the air. \\
+This reduces the boiling point and increases the risk to get to a “vapor lock” phenomena. ((Motul https://azupim01.motul.com/media/motulData/DO/base/RBF_660_FACTORY_LINE_en_FR_motul_48200_20211019.pdf))| \\
+Over time, brake fluid absorbs water from hoses, seals, etc., which also may reduce its boiling point and impair braking performance. \\
+Most brake fluid manufacturers suggest following your vehicle manufacturer's change intervals. \\
+In the absence of vehicle manufacturer specifications, it is generally suggested to change fluid at least every 2 years. \\
+Copper content is the most destructive aspect of brake fluid breakdown. \\ So even without moisture being present in the fluid, it is still a good idea to change the fluid when it is suppose to be changed. ((Baphomet of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/123676-tip-for-how-to-test-brake-fluid-with-multimeter?t=1227590))
 ===== HD Recommendations =====
 ^Year Model^Hydraulic brake fluid Type^
@@ Line 9: / Line 63: @@
 |Sept. 1976 to 2006|DOT 5 (99902-77) ((1986-1990 HD Sportster FSM)) ((Clymer Repair Manual for Sportsters 1959-1985 pg 83))|
 |2007 and later|DOT 4 ((http://sportsterpedia.com/doku.php/sportster_history:start#sportster_parts_chart))|
-===== When to Check or Change Brake Fluid =====
-Copper content is the most destructive aspect of brake fluid breakdown. \\ So even without moisture being present in the fluid, it is still a good idea to change the fluid when it is suppose to be changed. ((Baphomet of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1227590))
 ^Year Model^Check^Change^
@@ Line 23: / Line 74: @@
   * **Check water solubility**
   * What Type Brake Fluid Do You Have?
-    * 1st check your bikes service manual to see what should go in it.
+    * 1st check your bikes service manual to see what should go in it. \\ The master cylinder cover should have the type fluid stamped into it also. \\ Understand that the PO or Indy may have changed fluid type without your knowledge too.
     * Next, get a few drops of brake fluid from your brake reservoir and put them in a small container. Add a few drops of water and mix it all together.
     * If the water mixes with the brake fluid, it is DOT 3, 4 or (5.1).
@@ Line 33: / Line 84: @@
     * DOT 5.1 is available Clear, Pale Yellow & Blue.
     * DOT 5 is available in Purple & Violet. ((http://advancepetro.com/differentbrakefluid.htm))
-      * Turns clear when it gets old. ((sportysrock of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=70213))
+      * Turns clear during use (even though it is still fine to use). ((sportysrock of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/36109-bleeding-rear-brakes-oojidfsojifjo?threadid=70213))
-  * **Test for moisture content**: \\ This test is a result of an SAE paper showing a distinct relationship between moisture content and the voltage measured. ((turkishxl883 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1227590))
+  * **Test for moisture content**: \\ This test is a result of an SAE paper showing a distinct relationship between moisture content and the voltage measured. ((turkishxl883 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/123676-tip-for-how-to-test-brake-fluid-with-multimeter?t=1227590))
-  * Brake fluid (3,4 & 5.1) is hygroscopic (able to draw in moisture like a sponge). \\ It is no wonder, then, that the brake fluid in the master cylinder is often dark, almost black in appearance. \\ But does that mean it has to be changed? Not always. \\ Glycol based fluid absorbs moisture and disperses it throughout the system. \\ Silicone based (5) fluid does not allow moisture to enter the system. So this test may not work for DOT 5 fluid. ((steelworker of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1227590)) \\ (since it's the moisture inside the fluid that makes the reaction) \\ And while there are test strips to test the moisture content, \\ Here is a method that works just as well. \\ Use your DMM (Digital Multimeter) to test the fluid.
+  * Brake fluid (3,4 & 5.1) is hygroscopic (able to draw in moisture like a sponge). \\ It is no wonder, then, that the brake fluid in the master cylinder is often dark, almost black in appearance. \\ But does that mean it has to be changed? Not always. \\ Glycol based fluid absorbs moisture and disperses it throughout the system. \\ Silicone based (5) fluid does not allow moisture to enter the system. So this test may not work for DOT 5 fluid. ((steelworker of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/123676-tip-for-how-to-test-brake-fluid-with-multimeter?t=1227590)) \\ (since it's the moisture inside the fluid that makes the reaction) \\ And while there are test strips to test the moisture content, \\ Here is a method that works just as well. \\ Use your DMM (Digital Multimeter) to test the fluid.
   * The procedure is easy enough.
     * Hook up your negative meter lead to the negative battery post.
@@ Line 46: / Line 97: @@
   * If silicone is introduced into an older brake system; \\ The silicone will latch onto the sludge generated by gradual component deterioration and create a gelatin like goop. \\ (which will attract more crud and eventually plug up metering orifices or cause pistons to stick) \\ If you have already changed to DOT 5, don't compound the problem and change back. \\ You will never get all of the silicone out of your system. Just change the fluid regularly. \\ For those who race using silicone fluid; \\ Crack the bleed screws before each racing session to insure that there is no water in the calipers. ((http://importnut.net/brakefluid.htm))
-===== Replacing Brake Fluid (Dot 3 to Dot 5) =====
+|  Note the gooey mess from mixing Dot 5 and Dot 3 fluids. ((photos by FearlessFrisbee of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/139024-rear-wheel-install-conundrum?t=1508535)) ((photo by brianbbs67 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/179874-front-caliper-sticking/page2?s=b7cdc14394b5d341991efe72f18f9aad&t=1932868&page=2))  |||
+|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:dot_5_-_dot_3_mix_goop_1_by_fearlessfrisbee.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:dot_5_-_dot_3_mix_goop_2_by_fearlessfrisbee.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:1977_front_master_cylinder_piston_gummed_up_by_brianbbs67.jpg?direct&300|}}|
+===== Swapping Brake Fluid (Dot 3 to Dot 5) =====
 The following is found in HD Technical Service Bulletin M-712 dated June 16,1977. \\
@@ Line 76: / Line 129: @@
   * The change to Dot 5 brake fluid was made with HD production motorcycles in September of 1976 ((HD Service Letter M-28)). It is of silicone chemistry and not being water miscible, it must rely on the silicone (with some corrosion inhibitors) as a barrier film to control corrosion. Water is not absorbed by silicone as in the case of DOT 3-4-5.1 fluids, and will remain as a separate globule sinking to the lowest point in the brake system, since it is more dense. ((http://importnut.net/brakefluid.htm))
   * When using Dot 3 brake fluid, the brake system should be drained, flushed, and refilled with new brake fluid every year to eliminate any contamination such as sludge. This yearly service was eliminated when D.O.T.-5 silicone fluid was used instead and with improved performance. ((HD Service Bulletin #M712 dated June 16, 1977 pg 1))
-  * HD changed to DOT 5 brake fluid in production models in September of 1976. \\ Silicone brake fluid reduces corrosion, will not degrade the "rubber" components, and sludge will not form in the system. It will not absorb water, does not attack painted parts, and has a higher boiling point than conventional brake fluid. When stored under normal conditions it has unlimited shelf life. However, it is somewhat harder to bleed brakes with Dot 5 because of its viscosity. ((HD Service Bulletin #M712 dated June 16, 1977 pg 1))
+  * Silicone brake fluid reduces corrosion, will not degrade the "rubber" components, and sludge will not form in the system. It will not absorb water, does not attack painted parts, and has a higher boiling point than conventional brake fluid. When stored under normal conditions it has unlimited shelf life. However, it is somewhat harder to bleed brakes with Dot 5 because of its viscosity. ((HD Service Bulletin #M712 dated June 16, 1977 pg 1))
   *  Dot 5 in its pure state offers a higher boiling point (500F) however if water got into the system, and a big globule found its way into a caliper, the water would start to boil at 212F causing a vapor lock condition (possible brake failure). DOT 3 fluid with 3% water content would still exhibit a boiling point of 300F. Silicone fluids also exhibit a 3 times greater propensity to dissolve air and other gasses which can lead to a "spongy pedal" and reduced braking at high altitudes. ((http://importnut.net/brakefluid.htm))

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