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| ==== How the master cylinder transfers fluid ==== | ==== How the master cylinder transfers fluid ==== | ||
| - | * The downstroke, pushing the pedal / pulling the lever, forces (only) what's in the lines already into the hose. ((Hippysmack of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5740029#post5740029)) \\ Releasing the pedal (pedal at rest) is what adds fluid into the lines from the M/C reservoir. | + | * The downstroke, pushing the pedal / pulling the lever, forces (only) what's in the lines already into the hose. ((Hippysmack of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/196411-bleeding-rear-brakes-and-adjustment-1985#post4287304)) \\ Releasing the pedal (pedal at rest) is what adds fluid into the lines from the M/C reservoir. |
| * The compensation port (from the reservoir) sits just in front of the main plunger seal. \\ The lever has to fully retract or the port get's blocked off by the seal. | * The compensation port (from the reservoir) sits just in front of the main plunger seal. \\ The lever has to fully retract or the port get's blocked off by the seal. | ||
| * This is also why you can leave the M/C cap off during bleeding. \\ The brake lines are shielded from air infiltration from the reservoir with the plunger engaged. | * This is also why you can leave the M/C cap off during bleeding. \\ The brake lines are shielded from air infiltration from the reservoir with the plunger engaged. | ||
| * When the plunger is depressed, the system pressurizes and the easiest route out is the compensation port to the reservoir. \\ (until the plunger pushes past the port) \\ This is why their is a small spurt in the cup when you press the lever or pedal. \\ If this turns out to be a gusher, the plunger seals need to be replaced. | * When the plunger is depressed, the system pressurizes and the easiest route out is the compensation port to the reservoir. \\ (until the plunger pushes past the port) \\ This is why their is a small spurt in the cup when you press the lever or pedal. \\ If this turns out to be a gusher, the plunger seals need to be replaced. | ||
| - | * **Bypassing**: a term meaning the seals are old, fluid is bypassing the seal and not pushing the fluid down to the caliper. ((iNSaNeSHaNe of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2070555&highlight=m%2Fc)) \\ Just get a rebuild kit if this is happening. | + | * **Bypassing**: a term meaning the seals are old, fluid is bypassing the seal and not pushing the fluid down to the caliper. ((iNSaNeSHaNe of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/194332-another-brake-bleeding-thread?t=2070555&highlight=m/c)) \\ Just get a rebuild kit if this is happening. |
| - | Cutaway showing how the compensation port gives fluid into the system. ((photos by Hippysmack of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5697405#post5697405)) \\ Front M/C shown but both front and rear operate the same. \\ | + | Cutaway showing how the compensation port gives fluid into the system. ((photos by Hippysmack of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/194332-another-brake-bleeding-thread/page4#post4229408)) \\ Front M/C shown but both front and rear operate the same. \\ |
| |Plunger removed, port to bowl exposed.|Plunger at rest, brake system is open to M/C|Plunger engaged, brake system is closed to M/C| | |Plunger removed, port to bowl exposed.|Plunger at rest, brake system is open to M/C|Plunger engaged, brake system is closed to M/C| | ||
| |{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:master_cylinder_cutaway_1_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:master_cylinder_cutaway_2_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:master_cylinder_cutaway_3_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:master_cylinder_cutaway_1_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:master_cylinder_cutaway_2_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:master_cylinder_cutaway_3_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
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| * **Make sure you do regular brake fluid changes according to the FSM change intervals**. \\ If the bike has sat for a long period of time, it's best to go ahead and plan on changing both front and rear. | * **Make sure you do regular brake fluid changes according to the FSM change intervals**. \\ If the bike has sat for a long period of time, it's best to go ahead and plan on changing both front and rear. | ||
| * **Paint peel-ability of different fluids**: | * **Paint peel-ability of different fluids**: | ||
| - | * DOT 3,4 & 5.1 can peel the paint on frame and other painted parts. \\ DOT 5 is silicon based and will not peel the paint. \\ You can spill DOT 5 brake fluid virtually anywhere and harm nothing. ((IronMick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=867917&page=2)) | + | * DOT 3,4 & 5.1 can peel the paint on frame and other painted parts. \\ DOT 5 is silicon based and will not peel the paint. \\ You can spill DOT 5 brake fluid virtually anywhere and harm nothing. ((IronMick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/100666-brake-bleeding/page2?t=867917&page=2)) |
| * **Caution**: | * **Caution**: | ||
| * Do not mix DOT 5 with (DOT 3,4 or 5.1) | * Do not mix DOT 5 with (DOT 3,4 or 5.1) | ||
| - | | Note the gooey mess from mixing Dot 5 and Dot 3 fluids. ((photos by FearlessFrisbee of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1508535)) || | + | | Note the gooey mess from mixing Dot 5 and Dot 3 fluids. ((photos by FearlessFrisbee of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/139024-rear-wheel-install-conundrum?t=1508535)) || |
| |{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:dot_5_-_dot_3_mix_goop_1_by_fearlessfrisbee.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:dot_5_-_dot_3_mix_goop_2_by_fearlessfrisbee.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:dot_5_-_dot_3_mix_goop_1_by_fearlessfrisbee.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:dot_5_-_dot_3_mix_goop_2_by_fearlessfrisbee.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| Line 383: | Line 383: | ||
| * Any type brake fluid can break down over time, solids fall out of suspension and clog up orifices. | * Any type brake fluid can break down over time, solids fall out of suspension and clog up orifices. | ||
| * However, DOT 3, 4 and 5.1 will mix with water and they will dry up as water does over time. | * However, DOT 3, 4 and 5.1 will mix with water and they will dry up as water does over time. | ||
| - | * Look for corrosion in the aluminum in addition to the goo. \\ It's caused by the fluid absorbing water when the bikes sit for a long time and or the fluid is not changed for a long time. \\ Too long and you may find pits in the body of the MC and / or bore pitted beyond being cleanable with a hone. ((FearlessFrisbee of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1509571)) | + | * Look for corrosion in the aluminum in addition to the goo. \\ It's caused by the fluid absorbing water when the bikes sit for a long time and or the fluid is not changed for a long time. \\ Too long and you may find pits in the body of the MC and / or bore pitted beyond being cleanable with a hone. ((FearlessFrisbee of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/139080-what-size-is-the-master-cylinder?t=1509571)) |
| - | | Affects of dried up DOT 3 brake fluid. ((photos by Daddio of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1509571)) || | + | | Affects of dried up DOT 3 brake fluid. ((photos by Daddio of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/139080-what-size-is-the-master-cylinder?t=1509571)) || |
| |{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:dot_3_dried_up_1_by_daddio.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:dot_3_dried_up_2_by_daddio.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:dot_3_dried_up_1_by_daddio.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:dot_3_dried_up_2_by_daddio.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| + | |||
| ==== Notes regarding brake lines ==== | ==== Notes regarding brake lines ==== | ||
| - | |||
| * Take the trash out. \\ Check the M/C, calipers and lines to make sure they are free from debris or sludge. \\ Old brake fluid will break down and solids will fall out of suspension and block passage ways. | * Take the trash out. \\ Check the M/C, calipers and lines to make sure they are free from debris or sludge. \\ Old brake fluid will break down and solids will fall out of suspension and block passage ways. | ||
| - | * Old rubber brake lines may get weak from the inside. \\ This can cause them to bulge at the weak spot and not send pressure to the caliper. \\ It's sort of like a baloon being inflated. ((jharback of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1637840)) \\ It doesn't do it normally enough to be noticed (but enough to drive you crazy trying to track the problem down). \\ Just keep an eye on them while actuating the lever / pedal. | + | * Old rubber brake lines may get weak from the inside. \\ This can cause them to bulge at the weak spot and not send pressure to the caliper. \\ It's sort of like a baloon being inflated. ((jharback of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/151790-front-brake-has-no-pressure-tried-drain-bleed-no-success?t=1637840)) \\ It doesn't do it normally enough to be noticed (but enough to drive you crazy trying to track the problem down). \\ Just keep an eye on them while actuating the lever / pedal. |
| ==== Lever / Pedal ==== | ==== Lever / Pedal ==== | ||
| - | + | * Make sure the piece that hooks up to the actual lever that controls the brake is adjusted correctly. \\ It makes a considerable difference in the function of the M/C. ((DIESEL of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/40848-bleeding-the-rear-brake/page2?t=91538&page=2)) | |
| - | * Make sure the piece that hooks up to the actual lever that controls the brake is adjusted correctly. \\ It makes a considerable difference in the function of the M/C. ((DIESEL of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=91538&page=2)) | + | |
| ==== Check for leaks ==== | ==== Check for leaks ==== | ||
| - | + | * If you pull the cap off the M/C and the reservoir is very low or dry, that usually points to a leak somewhere. ((Deimus of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/40848-bleeding-the-rear-brake?t=91538)) \\ Possible, even if you could bleed it, there is still a problem that you should take care of. \\ Before you can build pressure, the system has to be leak free. \\ (this is especially important when changing lines / components) \\ Gussers will be obvious. But weeping leaks may be harder to detect in a fast visual scan. | |
| - | * If you pull the cap off the M/C and the reservoir is very low or dry, that usually points to a leak somewhere. ((Deimus of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=91538)) \\ Possible, even if you could bleed it, there is still a problem that you should take care of. \\ Before you can build pressure, the system has to be leak free. \\ (this is especially important when changing lines / components) \\ Gussers will be obvious. But weeping leaks may be harder to detect in a fast visual scan. | + | |
| * **There is no reason to use Teflon tape on any brake connections**. \\ If you want to seal the threads on the bleeder screw (normally unnecessary with conventional bleeding) try greasing the threads first. \\ Teflon tape can get sucked into and stop up the orifices (especially on flared fittings). | * **There is no reason to use Teflon tape on any brake connections**. \\ If you want to seal the threads on the bleeder screw (normally unnecessary with conventional bleeding) try greasing the threads first. \\ Teflon tape can get sucked into and stop up the orifices (especially on flared fittings). | ||
| ==== Trapped air ==== | ==== Trapped air ==== | ||
| - | |||
| Trapped air that refuses to leave will drive you crazy trying to find it. | Trapped air that refuses to leave will drive you crazy trying to find it. | ||
| * **Brake fluid**: \\ | * **Brake fluid**: \\ | ||
| - | * When DOT 3, 4 or 5.1 fluids trap air, the smaller bubbles can migrate and come together to form bigger bubbles that are fairly easy to remove. ((Gold951 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=53378&page=2)) | + | * When DOT 3, 4 or 5.1 fluids trap air, the smaller bubbles can migrate and come together to form bigger bubbles that are fairly easy to remove. ((Gold951 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/32162-stripped-bleeder-valve/page2?t=53378&page=2)) |
| - | * When DOT 5 fluid traps air, the bubbles have some difficulty migrating, so the bubbles tend to be smaller and there are more of them. \\ Also, when you pressurize a DOT 5 brake system that has trapped air and then let the pressure off; \\ The DOT 5 fluid tends to break the original bubbles into even smaller and smaller bubbles. \\ What you end up with is a brake fluid that has lots of microscopic air bubbles and your brakes feel spongy. \\ DOT 5 holds stupid amounts of air and you'll get no lever until its out (or at least most of it). ((cantolina of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33736)) \\ You may find that re-bleeding the caliper every couple of days will eventually get you a hard pedal for awhile. ((sportsterpaul of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1632435&page=3)) | + | * When DOT 5 fluid traps air, the bubbles have some difficulty migrating, so the bubbles tend to be smaller and there are more of them. \\ Also, when you pressurize a DOT 5 brake system that has trapped air and then let the pressure off; \\ The DOT 5 fluid tends to break the original bubbles into even smaller and smaller bubbles. \\ What you end up with is a brake fluid that has lots of microscopic air bubbles and your brakes feel spongy. \\ DOT 5 holds stupid amounts of air and you'll get no lever until its out (or at least most of it). ((cantolina of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/20389-bad-bleeder-screw?t=33736)) \\ You may find that re-bleeding the caliper every couple of days will eventually get you a hard pedal for awhile. ((sportsterpaul of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/150929-rubbermount-rear-master-cylinder/page3?t=1632435&page=3)) |
| * **Calipers**. \\ Sometimes small air bubbles get stuck in the caliper. | * **Calipers**. \\ Sometimes small air bubbles get stuck in the caliper. | ||
| - | * Try removing the caliper (M/C cap off) and pressing in the piston which will force fluid / air up into the master. ((iNSaNeSHaNe of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2070555&highlight=m%2Fc)) | + | * Try removing the caliper (M/C cap off) and pressing in the piston which will force fluid / air up into the master. ((iNSaNeSHaNe of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/194332-another-brake-bleeding-thread?t=2070555&highlight=m/c)) |
| - | * You can also reduce the volume needed to fill the system, temporarily, by chocking the pads in the retracted position. ((bustert of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2070555&highlight=m%2Fc&page=3)) \\ It takes less fluid with no movement of the pads and will take out any surge issues. \\ Once you get a hard feel, unblock the pads and then pump out while keeping the master full. \\ It may help if you vacuum the fluid up from the caliper. \\ Another way is to just let it sit overnight since the fluid will seek its own level. | + | * You can also reduce the volume needed to fill the system, temporarily, by chocking the pads in the retracted position. ((bustert of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/194332-another-brake-bleeding-thread/page3?t=2070555&highlight=m/c&page=3)) \\ It takes less fluid with no movement of the pads and will take out any surge issues. \\ Once you get a hard feel, unblock the pads and then pump out while keeping the master full. \\ It may help if you vacuum the fluid up from the caliper. \\ Another way is to just let it sit overnight since the fluid will seek its own level. |
| * **Brake lines**. | * **Brake lines**. | ||
| * **Master cylinder**. | * **Master cylinder**. | ||
| Line 416: | Line 413: | ||
| **Before you strip the bleeder screw head**: \\ | **Before you strip the bleeder screw head**: \\ | ||
| Helpful wrench advice: \\ | Helpful wrench advice: \\ | ||
| - | * Do not use an open ended wrench on the bleeder nipple ((stevo of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=61198#post61198)) (unless it has already been stripped). \\ Use a 6 pointed box end or socket to match the 6 pointed head, 12 point wrench to 12 point head. \\ A 12 point wrench slips too easy and will most likely end up rounding off the corners. \\ That tiny bleed nipple will shear off real easy. | + | * Do not use an open ended wrench on the bleeder nipple ((stevo of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/3137-rtf-brake-bleeding-101#post61198)) (unless it has already been stripped). \\ Use a 6 pointed box end or socket to match the 6 pointed head, 12 point wrench to 12 point head. \\ A 12 point wrench slips too easy and will most likely end up rounding off the corners. \\ That tiny bleed nipple will shear off real easy. |
| * Tap the nipple straight on a few times with a flat punch to jar it loose. | * Tap the nipple straight on a few times with a flat punch to jar it loose. | ||
| * If you have can't access a 6 point wrench, use a 6 point socket to break the screw loose and lightly snug it back with the wrench. \\ Then you can open and close the bleeder as you need to with the wrench. | * If you have can't access a 6 point wrench, use a 6 point socket to break the screw loose and lightly snug it back with the wrench. \\ Then you can open and close the bleeder as you need to with the wrench. | ||
| * On small bolts and nipples like bleed nipples, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS open them by hitting the wrench with a small hammer or like tool. \\ Metal to metal tapping, too - not a deadblow plastic mallet. You need that sharp impact to break loose the small bolt or fitting; Us gorilla wrenchers can shear a fitting thru constant pressure right quick. ((Hopper)) | * On small bolts and nipples like bleed nipples, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS open them by hitting the wrench with a small hammer or like tool. \\ Metal to metal tapping, too - not a deadblow plastic mallet. You need that sharp impact to break loose the small bolt or fitting; Us gorilla wrenchers can shear a fitting thru constant pressure right quick. ((Hopper)) | ||
| * A stripped bleeder screw can happen when the wrong size / type wrench is used on the bleeder screw and / or too much torque was applied. \\ Next to come out of the toolbox is usually the vise-grip pliers. \\ This works sometimes but, when it doesn't, it will round off the rest of the hex head or break the screw in half. | * A stripped bleeder screw can happen when the wrong size / type wrench is used on the bleeder screw and / or too much torque was applied. \\ Next to come out of the toolbox is usually the vise-grip pliers. \\ This works sometimes but, when it doesn't, it will round off the rest of the hex head or break the screw in half. | ||
| - | * You can also use a flare nut wrench. ((Gold951 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=53378&page=2)) \\ It looks just like a standard box end wrench except the box is slotted so you can get the wrench on brake fitting flare nuts. | + | * You can also use a flare nut wrench. ((Gold951 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/32162-stripped-bleeder-valve/page2?t=53378&page=2)) \\ It looks just like a standard box end wrench except the box is slotted so you can get the wrench on brake fitting flare nuts. |
| - | * You can keep a junk ratchet in the box for just such an occasion. Sure - you can get a little breaker bar. \\ But on delicate, often tight space work, a chinese disposable ratchet comes in handy! ((chuckspeed of the XLFOUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=614423&highlight=tap+die)) | + | * You can keep a junk ratchet in the box for just such an occasion. Sure - you can get a little breaker bar. \\ But on delicate, often tight space work, a chinese disposable ratchet comes in handy! ((chuckspeed of the XLFOUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/82723-stuck-broken-bolt-removal-101?t=614423&highlight=tap+die)) |
| * **Once you're done, tighten the bleeder with the socket to 80-100 in/lbs**. \\ The FSM reads 80-100 ft/lbs..... this is wrong. | * **Once you're done, tighten the bleeder with the socket to 80-100 in/lbs**. \\ The FSM reads 80-100 ft/lbs..... this is wrong. | ||
| Line 428: | Line 425: | ||
| Removing a stripped or worn down hex head on the bleeder valve: \\ | Removing a stripped or worn down hex head on the bleeder valve: \\ | ||
| * You can use a Dremil tool with the metal cutting blade or even a small file and cut / form a flat on two opposite sides of the screw. \\ The heat generated will help and you can then use an open end wrench to remove the bleeder screw. \\ Then, of course, replace the bleeder with a new one. | * You can use a Dremil tool with the metal cutting blade or even a small file and cut / form a flat on two opposite sides of the screw. \\ The heat generated will help and you can then use an open end wrench to remove the bleeder screw. \\ Then, of course, replace the bleeder with a new one. | ||
| - | * You can also remove the caliper and carefully placed it in my bench vice to get a better grip on the bleeder screw. ((dlo883 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=53378&page=2)) \\ Then use vice grips on the bleeder or cut 2 flats on it to remove the bleeder. \\ Clean the hole out with a brush / canned air and replace with a new bleeder screw. | + | * You can also remove the caliper and carefully placed it in my bench vice to get a better grip on the bleeder screw. ((dlo883 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/32162-stripped-bleeder-valve/page2?t=53378&page=2)) \\ Then use vice grips on the bleeder or cut 2 flats on it to remove the bleeder. \\ Clean the hole out with a brush / canned air and replace with a new bleeder screw. |
| |{{:techtalk:ref:tools:12_point_wrench_on_bleeder_screw_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&400|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:brake_bleeder_screw_removal_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&400|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ref:tools:12_point_wrench_on_bleeder_screw_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&400|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:brake_bleeder_screw_removal_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&400|}}| | ||
| Line 434: | Line 431: | ||
| **Broken off Bleeder Valve**: \\ | **Broken off Bleeder Valve**: \\ | ||
| - | Brake fluid holds some moisture and can cause the screw to rust. ((mjbogrand of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=425716)) \\ | + | Brake fluid holds some moisture and can cause the screw to rust. ((mjbogrand of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/66096-bleeder-screw-on-caliper-broke-off-now-what?t=425716)) \\ |
| Before doing any type removal of a broken off bleeder valve, it's best to remove the caliper. \\ That way, you don't introduce contaminates into the brake system. \\ | Before doing any type removal of a broken off bleeder valve, it's best to remove the caliper. \\ That way, you don't introduce contaminates into the brake system. \\ | ||
| - | Some come easy, some take a few tries. If it's a steel screw completely seized by corrosion to an aluminum caliper, it's not coming out without the aluminum threads too. ((Maxeffort of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5876057#post5876057)) \\ | + | Some come easy, some take a few tries. If it's a steel screw completely seized by corrosion to an aluminum caliper, it's not coming out without the aluminum threads too. ((Maxeffort of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/201603-xl883n-iron-2009-bleeder-valve-broken#post4473974)) \\ |
| * **Possible fixes without removing the caliper**: | * **Possible fixes without removing the caliper**: | ||
| - | - The valve already has a hole in it so you can try inserting an Easy-Out thread extractor to remove it. \\ Careful as it takes no force at all to snap them off and they are hard to drill. ((Hopper of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=425716&page=2)) \\ Otherwise drill the hole a little bigger and try a bigger Easy-Out. - Leave the bleeder alone. ((Hopper of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=425716&page=2)) \\ You can bleed fluid and air by slackening off the pipe fitting nut where the brake line screws into the caliper. \\ Loosen it as you squeeze the lever, tighten it before letting the lever go. \\ It's messy, but Harleys using DOT 5 fluid won't strip the paint. \\ Do it over the lawn or over an old newspaper and then wash down with soapy water when done. \\ The old broken nipple is not going to come loose . That is why it broke in the first place. \\ And all the air comes out the brake line connection as long as it's the highest point on the caliper. \\ And, you wont have to rebuild the caliper that way. | + | - The valve already has a hole in it so you can try inserting an Easy-Out thread extractor to remove it. \\ Careful as it takes no force at all to snap them off and they are hard to drill. ((Hopper of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/66096-bleeder-screw-on-caliper-broke-off-now-what/page2?t=425716&page=2)) \\ Otherwise drill the hole a little bigger and try a bigger Easy-Out. - Leave the bleeder alone. ((Hopper of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/66096-bleeder-screw-on-caliper-broke-off-now-what/page2?t=425716&page=2)) \\ You can bleed fluid and air by slackening off the pipe fitting nut where the brake line screws into the caliper. \\ Loosen it as you squeeze the lever, tighten it before letting the lever go. \\ It's messy, but Harleys using DOT 5 fluid won't strip the paint. \\ Do it over the lawn or over an old newspaper and then wash down with soapy water when done. \\ The old broken nipple is not going to come loose . That is why it broke in the first place. \\ And all the air comes out the brake line connection as long as it's the highest point on the caliper. \\ And, you wont have to rebuild the caliper that way. |
| * **Possible fixes by removing the caliper** (and afterwards, replacing the seals): \\ Heat and / or lubricants (especially WD-40) can destroy the seals. | * **Possible fixes by removing the caliper** (and afterwards, replacing the seals): \\ Heat and / or lubricants (especially WD-40) can destroy the seals. | ||
| - | - Spray the remains of the valve with penetrating lube, let it set a bit, then use an Easy-Out to remove the remaining piece. ((mjbogrand of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=425716)) | + | - Spray the remains of the valve with penetrating lube, let it set a bit, then use an Easy-Out to remove the remaining piece. ((mjbogrand of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/66096-bleeder-screw-on-caliper-broke-off-now-what?t=425716)) |
| - | * Stop if it slips, and go back to soaking. ((sunchild2071 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1925442)) \\ Don't make your mission to get it out in one day. \\ Use a straight penetrating fluid, not penetrating fluid/lubricant. The lubricant will help the removal tool slip, as well. | + | * Stop if it slips, and go back to soaking. ((sunchild2071 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/179198-pie-caliper-bleeder-valve-broke?t=1925442)) \\ Don't make your mission to get it out in one day. \\ Use a straight penetrating fluid, not penetrating fluid/lubricant. The lubricant will help the removal tool slip, as well. |
| - | - Remove the caliper, strip it completely and drill to the largest diameter possible without getting into the threads. ((simeli of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1925442)) \\ Be careful not to drill through the seat. Lightly tap an easy out into the drilling, remove the easy out (don't try to remove the piece just yet). \\ Put heat directly on the bleeder until it just starts to glow red (the heat will travel quickly into the aluminum). \\ Invert a can of air and spray to quickly cool the bleeder (the heat will remain in the aluminum so you have to do the next part quickly). \\ Insert the easy out, give it a "light tap" and turn out the piece. | + | - Remove the caliper, strip it completely and drill to the largest diameter possible without getting into the threads. ((simeli of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/179198-pie-caliper-bleeder-valve-broke?t=1925442)) \\ Be careful not to drill through the seat. Lightly tap an easy out into the drilling, remove the easy out (don't try to remove the piece just yet). \\ Put heat directly on the bleeder until it just starts to glow red (the heat will travel quickly into the aluminum). \\ Invert a can of air and spray to quickly cool the bleeder (the heat will remain in the aluminum so you have to do the next part quickly). \\ Insert the easy out, give it a "light tap" and turn out the piece. |
| - | - You could drill it and use 2 small picks to pick out the old bleeder threads. ((mjbogrand of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=425716)) | + | - You could drill it and use 2 small picks to pick out the old bleeder threads. ((mjbogrand of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/66096-bleeder-screw-on-caliper-broke-off-now-what?t=425716)) |
| - | * After drilling to the maximum size without getting into the threads, install a 1/32" bur on a Dremel tool. ((simeli of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1925442)) \\ Take the remainder down to the threads in two spots 180 degrees from each other. \\ Use a pick to remove the leftover pieces of the bleeder (this is very tedious and time consuming). | + | * After drilling to the maximum size without getting into the threads, install a 1/32" bur on a Dremel tool. ((simeli of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/179198-pie-caliper-bleeder-valve-broke?t=1925442)) \\ Take the remainder down to the threads in two spots 180 degrees from each other. \\ Use a pick to remove the leftover pieces of the bleeder (this is very tedious and time consuming). |
| - | - You could also try a left handed drill bit. ((mjbogrand of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=425716)) The heat generated and the (unthreading) motion may loosen it. \\ However, if you drill it, you'll need to completely disassemble the caliper to remove the swarf. ((66xlch of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=425716&page=2)) \\ If you ruin the threads, they make an 1/8" pipe thread adapter which has a bleeder screw in it. | + | - You could also try a left handed drill bit. ((mjbogrand of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/66096-bleeder-screw-on-caliper-broke-off-now-what?t=425716)) The heat generated and the (unthreading) motion may loosen it. \\ However, if you drill it, you'll need to completely disassemble the caliper to remove the swarf. ((66xlch of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/66096-bleeder-screw-on-caliper-broke-off-now-what/page2?t=425716&page=2)) \\ If you ruin the threads, they make an 1/8" pipe thread adapter which has a bleeder screw in it. |
| - | - Heat the caliper with a propane torch and try to unscrew the nipple with vice grips or drill it out with a left handed drill bit. ((Hopper of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=425716&page=2)) \\ The caliper is aluminum so it will expand and loosen the grip on the nipple. | + | - Heat the caliper with a propane torch and try to unscrew the nipple with vice grips or drill it out with a left handed drill bit. ((Hopper of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/66096-bleeder-screw-on-caliper-broke-off-now-what/page2?t=425716&page=2)) \\ The caliper is aluminum so it will expand and loosen the grip on the nipple. |
| - | - If you've got a wire feed welder, dismantle the M/C, get a thin jam nut and plug weld it to what's left of the bleeder. ((Racepres of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1829559)) \\ Let it cool a bit and unscrew the nut (and bleeder). Install a caliper rebuild kit and a new bleeder. | + | - If you've got a wire feed welder, dismantle the M/C, get a thin jam nut and plug weld it to what's left of the bleeder. ((Racepres of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/170548-broken-bleeder-screw?t=1829559)) \\ Let it cool a bit and unscrew the nut (and bleeder). Install a caliper rebuild kit and a new bleeder. |
| - | * Per Maxeffort, the heat and then cooling help. The heat is localized and quick, it won't hurt the caliper. \\ That's part of why it works, the broke bolt gets hot, expands, then contracts against the cooler casting. (One might protect the rubber from weld splatter). ((Maxeffort of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5876057#post5876057)) \\ So whether to rebuild the caliper depends on the one doing the work. And as always, if it works, it works. \\ | + | * Per Maxeffort, the heat and then cooling help. The heat is localized and quick, it won't hurt the caliper. \\ That's part of why it works, the broke bolt gets hot, expands, then contracts against the cooler casting. (One might protect the rubber from weld splatter). ((Maxeffort of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/201603-xl883n-iron-2009-bleeder-valve-broken#post4473974)) \\ So whether to rebuild the caliper depends on the one doing the work. And as always, if it works, it works. \\ |
| * **Or you can just search for a new or used caliper**. | * **Or you can just search for a new or used caliper**. | ||
| **Stripped bleeder threads**: | **Stripped bleeder threads**: | ||
| - | * You can use a "Brake bleeder repair kit" if the actual threads in the caliper are bad. ((decman of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=53378)) \\ You can get the kit at most auto parts stores. \\ Try a search for Dorman (13915) [[https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dorman-HELP-Bleeder-Screw-Repair-Kit-for-1-4-to-7-16-or-7mm-to-10mm-Scr-13915/161464962895? epid=17017014407&hash=item25980fcf4f:g:9xUAAOSw86Jaa5z6|Bleeder Screw Repair Kit for 1/4" to 7/16" or 7mm to 10mm Screws]] \\ You will need to drill out the hole and tap for the new threads. | + | * You can use a "Brake bleeder repair kit" if the actual threads in the caliper are bad. ((decman of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/32162-stripped-bleeder-valve?t=53378)) \\ You can get the kit at most auto parts stores. \\ Try a search for Dorman (13915) [[https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dorman-HELP-Bleeder-Screw-Repair-Kit-for-1-4-to-7-16-or-7mm-to-10mm-Scr-13915/161464962895? epid=17017014407&hash=item25980fcf4f:g:9xUAAOSw86Jaa5z6|Bleeder Screw Repair Kit for 1/4" to 7/16" or 7mm to 10mm Screws]] \\ You will need to drill out the hole and tap for the new threads. |
| * Here is another link: [[https://www.ebay.com/itm/HArley-FX-FXE-SPORTY-FRONT-Brake-Caliper-Bleeder-Repair-Kit-USA-SCREW-HOLE/132024051789?hash=item1ebd3f284d:g:ngYAAOSwiDFYRGIF:sc:USPSFirstClass!36801!US!-1|Harley FX FXE SPORTY front brake caliper bleeder repair kit]] \\ 1/8" clearance in the caliper wall is all that's required. \\ Drill out bleeder hole to 25/64" diameter and 3/4" deep. \\ Tap with a bottoming tap 7/16"x20 (at least 10 threads). \\ Remove the chips. | * Here is another link: [[https://www.ebay.com/itm/HArley-FX-FXE-SPORTY-FRONT-Brake-Caliper-Bleeder-Repair-Kit-USA-SCREW-HOLE/132024051789?hash=item1ebd3f284d:g:ngYAAOSwiDFYRGIF:sc:USPSFirstClass!36801!US!-1|Harley FX FXE SPORTY front brake caliper bleeder repair kit]] \\ 1/8" clearance in the caliper wall is all that's required. \\ Drill out bleeder hole to 25/64" diameter and 3/4" deep. \\ Tap with a bottoming tap 7/16"x20 (at least 10 threads). \\ Remove the chips. | ||
| Line 475: | Line 472: | ||
| ===== Attaching a hose to the bleeder valve ===== | ===== Attaching a hose to the bleeder valve ===== | ||
| - | |||
| * **Sizes**: | * **Sizes**: | ||
| * The I.D. needs to be smaller than the mouth of the bleeder screw so you can install it tight on the bleeder. | * The I.D. needs to be smaller than the mouth of the bleeder screw so you can install it tight on the bleeder. | ||
| - | * A 5/16" hose will work but 1/4" works better. \\ 1/4" is harder to get on but it won't slip off (as easily). ((Horse of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=61198#post61198)) | + | * A 5/16" hose will work but 1/4" works better. \\ 1/4" is harder to get on but it won't slip off (as easily). ((Horse of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/3137-rtf-brake-bleeding-101#post61198)) |
| * Tygon R-3603 PVC tubing (3/16" I.D.) works good also but it may be harder to come by. \\ The wall is thick and it holds tight. | * Tygon R-3603 PVC tubing (3/16" I.D.) works good also but it may be harder to come by. \\ The wall is thick and it holds tight. | ||
| * All else fails, take your bleeder screw off and take it with you to a hardware store to size the hose to fit. | * All else fails, take your bleeder screw off and take it with you to a hardware store to size the hose to fit. | ||
| Line 486: | Line 482: | ||
| * **Attachment**: | * **Attachment**: | ||
| * The hose I.D. should be smaller than the O.D. of the bleeder screw head so it fits tight once installed. \\ Pressed on with your fingers, it should not easily come off. \\ However, unless it is fastened on, any hose will come off when pulled on. | * The hose I.D. should be smaller than the O.D. of the bleeder screw head so it fits tight once installed. \\ Pressed on with your fingers, it should not easily come off. \\ However, unless it is fastened on, any hose will come off when pulled on. | ||
| - | * You can also put a zip tie over the hose / bleeder just tight enough to keep it on the bleeder if needed. ((Loner of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=61198#post61198)) | + | * You can also put a zip tie over the hose / bleeder just tight enough to keep it on the bleeder if needed. ((Loner of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/3137-rtf-brake-bleeding-101#post61198)) |
| - | * When attaching a piece of hose to the bleed valve on the caliper, place a box wrench on the bleeder first. \\ Then put the hose over it on the valve. ((Big Al-1200c of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=867917&page=2)) | + | * When attaching a piece of hose to the bleed valve on the caliper, place a box wrench on the bleeder first. \\ Then put the hose over it on the valve. ((Big Al-1200c of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/100666-brake-bleeding/page2?t=867917&page=2)) |
| * **Length**: | * **Length**: | ||
| * About 3-4 feet should do. You just need it to be taller than the caliper and where you can see it while pumping the pedal / lever. ((Hippysmack of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2072934)) | * About 3-4 feet should do. You just need it to be taller than the caliper and where you can see it while pumping the pedal / lever. ((Hippysmack of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2072934)) | ||
