Differences

This shows you the differences between two versions of the page.

Link to this comparison view

Both sides previous revisionPrevious revision
Next revision		Previous revision
techtalk:evo:priclutch01 [2021/01/21 06:28] – [Clutch Release Adjustment - Why & How] ixl2relaxtechtalk:evo:priclutch01 [2024/01/06 04:25] (current) – hippysmack
Line 25: Line 25:
  
 {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutchrelease-fundia-4sp.jpg?400|}}((Illustration created by IXL2Relax at the XLForum)) {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutchassembly-4sp.jpg?400|}} {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutchrelease-fundia-4sp.jpg?400|}}((Illustration created by IXL2Relax at the XLForum)) {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutchassembly-4sp.jpg?400|}}
- 
  
 Here's the re-assembly sequence of the 1984L-1990 clutch diaphragm spring & pressure plate according to InsaneShane:\\ Here's the re-assembly sequence of the 1984L-1990 clutch diaphragm spring & pressure plate according to InsaneShane:\\
Line 36: Line 35:
     * Finally, you compress the clutch and install the **retaining ring**.     * Finally, you compress the clutch and install the **retaining ring**.
  
-See this XLForum Thread - http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2021615 +See this XLForum Thread - https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/frame-mount-evo-sportster-talk-1986-2003-models/189592-clutch-install-troubles-clutch-diaphragm-spring?t=2021615
- +
-The Ball & Ramp Assembly is mounted to the inside of the Primary Cover. This necessitates the removal of the Primary Cover in order to replace either the B&R unit or the Adjuster Bearing unit.+
  
 +| On the 4-speed models, the Ball & Ramp\\ Assembly is mounted to the inside of\\ the Primary Cover. This necessitates the\\ removal of the Primary Cover in order to\\ replace either the B&R unit or the\\ Adjuster Bearing unit.\\ \\ \\ \\ This same Ball & Ramp mounting design\\ was carried forward and used on the\\ 1991-1993 5-speed model engines.\\ \\ \\ The 1994 models were the first to place\\ the B&R assembly behind the larger\\ derby cover. | {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:ballrampmount-pre94.jpg?300|}} ((1986 primary cover pic by iron mike - https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/201772-late-84-85-primary-cover-to-86-90-cover?t=2078880)) |
  
 \\ \\
Line 70: Line 68:
 {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutch-springseat-lock.jpg}}((Annotations created by IXL2Relax at the XLForum)) {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutch-springseat-lock.jpg}}((Annotations created by IXL2Relax at the XLForum))
  
-{{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutch-springseat-right.jpg?600|}}((Image from jigoe007 from http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2044017 Annotations created by IXL2Relax at the XLForum))+{{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutch-springseat-right.jpg?600|}}((Image from jigoe007 from https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/191597-barnett-extra-plate-kevlar-kit?t=2044017 Annotations created by IXL2Relax at the XLForum))
  
 Additional information threads at the XLForum.net:\\ Additional information threads at the XLForum.net:\\
-http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1843303\\ +https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-engine-conversions/171908-2013-883-cafe-hammer-performance-1250-conversion?t=1843303\\ 
-http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2044017\\+https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/191597-barnett-extra-plate-kevlar-kit?t=2044017\\
  
  
Line 85: Line 83:
 Due to the large number of spring plate failures on 04+ models; \\ Due to the large number of spring plate failures on 04+ models; \\
 Many owners are replacing the spring plate with two extra steel plates and one more friction plate. \\ Many owners are replacing the spring plate with two extra steel plates and one more friction plate. \\
-See [[techtalk:evo:priclutch01#spring_plate_failure|Spring Plate Failure]] below. \\+See below for [[techtalk:evo:priclutch01#spring_plate_failure|Spring Plate Failure]] and [[techtalk:ref:priclutch02|Clutch Parts & Mods - Aftermarket]] for other options.\\ 
 |  Measuring the spring plate ((photos by Hippysmack))  || |  Measuring the spring plate ((photos by Hippysmack))  ||
 |{{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:measuring_uncompressed_spring_plate_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:measuring_compressed_spring_plate_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| |{{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:measuring_uncompressed_spring_plate_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:measuring_compressed_spring_plate_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|
Line 111: Line 110:
 ---- ----
  
-{{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutch-stackheight-chart.jpg?600}}((Annotated by IXL2Relax at the XLForum))+{{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutch-stackheight-chart.jpg?650}}((Annotated by IXL2Relax at the XLForum))
  
  
Line 117: Line 116:
 ===== Clutch Release Adjustment - Why & How ===== ===== Clutch Release Adjustment - Why & How =====
  
-This explanation of why & how you adjust the clutch release point pulls together information from members on the XLForum.\\ +This explanation of why & how you adjust the clutch release point references information from members on the XLForum.\\ 
-([[http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=168162|THIS_THREAD]] from member XLXR is informative)\\ +([[https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/46244-clutch-adjustment-under-derby-cover?t=168162|THIS_THREAD]] from member XLXR is informative)\\ 
-([[http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49915|THIS_THREAD]] from member cjburr has some nice pictures of the parts discussed.)+([[https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/29955-06-clutch-install?t=49915|THIS_THREAD]] from member cjburr has some nice pictures of the parts discussed.)
  
 The adjuster screw under the derby cover controls when the Ball & Ramp begins to move the pressure plate. The pressure plate must move a sufficient range for the clutch plates to move from fully engaged to fully disengaged. The adjuster screw under the derby cover controls when the Ball & Ramp begins to move the pressure plate. The pressure plate must move a sufficient range for the clutch plates to move from fully engaged to fully disengaged.
 +
 +While the mounting of the Ball & Ramp Assembly is different for 1986-1993 from the 1994-later models, the adjustments are based on the fact that the operation of the B&R is the same, therefore, the adjusting procedure is done in the same manner.
 +
  
 **Quoting XLXR** - If the adjuster screw is too loose, the pressure plate will not be able to move the full distance it needs to and the clutch plates will not fully disengage causing hard shifting, hard to find neutral and clutch dragging while in gear with lever pulled in. **Quoting XLXR** - If the adjuster screw is too loose, the pressure plate will not be able to move the full distance it needs to and the clutch plates will not fully disengage causing hard shifting, hard to find neutral and clutch dragging while in gear with lever pulled in.
Line 134: Line 136:
 {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutchadjustments-diagram.jpg|clutchadjustments-diagram.jpg}}((Illustration created by IXL2Relax at the XLForum)) {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutchadjustments-diagram.jpg|clutchadjustments-diagram.jpg}}((Illustration created by IXL2Relax at the XLForum))
  
-The diagram illustrates three zones on the Clutch Lever - When fully released, Zone(1) is the 1/8" Cable Free Play where there is no tension whatsoever from the cable pulling on the lever - The lever just sorta dangles there in its mount… As you pull the Clutch Lever toward the handlebar, you reach Zone((Tomcatt of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5761621&highlight=clutch#post5761621)) which is the Adjuster Free Play - The cable is now pulling on the Ball & Ramp, rotating it to expand… This brings us to Zone((thanks to Jollly Rogers for the suggestion http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5761695#post5761695)) which occurs when the Ball & Ramp has expanded far enough to actully begin pulling the Clutch Pressure Plate away from the Clutch Pack. Zone(3) continues all the way until the Clutch Lever reaches the handlebar. If adjusted correctly, you will have these three distinct zones in the movement of your Clutch Lever and the Clutch Pack will be fully dis-engaged before the end of Zone(3) - before the lever is against the handlebars.+The diagram illustrates three zones on the Clutch Lever - When fully released, Zone(1) is the 1/8" Cable Free Play where there is no tension whatsoever from the cable pulling on the lever - The lever just sorta dangles there in its mount… As you pull the Clutch Lever toward the handlebar, you reach Zone(2)((Tomcatt of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/29621-clutch-adjustment/page7?highlight=clutch#post4317813)) which is the Adjuster Free Play - The cable is now pulling on the Ball & Ramp, rotating it to expand, but it is not pulling on the clutch pressure plate, yet. This brings us to Zone(3)((thanks to Jollly Rogers for the suggestion https://www.xlforum.net/forum/forum-functions/sportsterpedia-com-admin/197389-good-clutch-adjustment-tip#post4317886)) which occurs when the Ball & Ramp has expanded far enough to actually begin pulling the Clutch Pressure Plate away from the Clutch Pack. Zone(3) continues all the way until the Clutch Lever reaches the handlebar. If adjusted correctly, you will have these three distinct zones in the movement of your Clutch Lever and the Clutch Pack will be fully dis-engaged before the end of Zone(3) - before the lever is against the handlebars.
  
-Zone 2 diminishes as the plates wear. The actual lever free play (Zone 1) should not change as the clutch plates wear - Here's why:+Zone(2) diminishes as the plates wear. The actual lever free play (Zone(1)) should not change as the clutch plates wear - Here's why:
  
 The clutch lever, once set with the cable adjuster, is in a fixed position (with a fixed length to the cable). The Ball & Ramp Assembly is mounted to the Primary Cover, so it, too, is in a fixed position. The cable (fixed length) runs between the clutch lever (fixed position) and the coupling on the Ball & Ramp Assy (fixed position). The clutch lever, once set with the cable adjuster, is in a fixed position (with a fixed length to the cable). The Ball & Ramp Assembly is mounted to the Primary Cover, so it, too, is in a fixed position. The cable (fixed length) runs between the clutch lever (fixed position) and the coupling on the Ball & Ramp Assy (fixed position).
Line 142: Line 144:
 The adjuster bearing is mounted to your pressure plate and the adjuster hex nut (around the adjuster screw) is mounted on the Ball & Ramp Assy. When the Ball & Ramp Assy is rotated, it expands the distance (ball up the ramp) between each side of itself, pushing against the Primary Cover on one side and the adjuster hex nut on the other side. This is how it pulls the clutch pressure plate away from (pushing on the adjuster screw/nut) the Clutch Pack in order to fully dis-engage the plates. The adjuster bearing is mounted to your pressure plate and the adjuster hex nut (around the adjuster screw) is mounted on the Ball & Ramp Assy. When the Ball & Ramp Assy is rotated, it expands the distance (ball up the ramp) between each side of itself, pushing against the Primary Cover on one side and the adjuster hex nut on the other side. This is how it pulls the clutch pressure plate away from (pushing on the adjuster screw/nut) the Clutch Pack in order to fully dis-engage the plates.
  
-BUT, since the Ball & Ramp Assy is mounted to the Primary Cover, there is no change in the position or movement of that assembly with which the lever interacts. Therefore, Zone 1 does not change - The lever will continue to move 1/8" before starting to tug on the Ball & Ramp coupling.+BUT, since the Ball & Ramp Assy is mounted to the Primary Cover, there is no change in the position or movement of that assembly with which the lever interacts. Therefore, Zone(1) does not change - The lever will continue to move 1/8" before starting to tug on the Ball & Ramp coupling.
  
-Eventually the friction zone begins to slide past the point on the clutch lever where Zone 2 meets Zone 1, and the bearing is now fully active, laterally, all the time (since the pressure plate is moving inward as the plates wear) and the Clutch Pack is slipping because the Pressure Plate can no longer fully compress the pack…\\ +Eventually the friction zone begins to slide past the point on the clutch lever where Zone(2) meets Zone(1), and the bearing is now fully active, laterally, all the time (since the pressure plate is moving inward as the plates wear) and the Clutch Pack is slipping because the Pressure Plate can no longer fully compress the pack…\\ 
-(Also see this [[http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1978641|__XLFORUM THREAD__]])+(Also see this [[https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/184113-clutch-release-adjustment-does-this-help?t=1978641|__XLFORUM THREAD__]])
  
-__**MAKING THE CLUTCH RELEASE ADJUSTMENT**__  - Refer to your FSM to be sure this procedure is correct for your particular model - Check/Adjust every 5000 miles (or as needed). Grab the Clutch Lever and squeeze and release a few times before you start - This helps to settle the position of the Release Adjuster…+__**MAKING THE CLUTCH RELEASE ADJUSTMENT**__  - Refer to your FSM to be sure this procedure is correct for your particular model - Check/Adjust every 5000 miles (or as needed). Grab the Clutch Lever and squeeze and release a few times before you start - This helps to settle the position of the Release Adjuster.
  
-Now find the Clutch __Cable Adjuster__ - Move the boot & loosen the Jam Nut - Fully loosen the tension by screwing the two parts of the Clutch Cable Adjuster together, thus making the adjuster shorter - thereby the cable (and lever) becomes loose…+Now find the Clutch __Cable Adjuster__ - Move the boot & loosen the Jam Nut - Fully loosen the tension by screwing the two parts of the Clutch Cable Adjuster together, thus making the adjuster shorter - thereby the cable (and lever) becomes loose.
  
-Remove the Clutch Inspection Cover (off the Primary Housing - Small Cover on '86-'93 - Large 'Derby Cover' on '94-up) (You may have to loosen or remove the left mid-mount foot peg) - be careful as you remove the cover because there is an internal spring & Release Adjuster Position Lock Nut - Remove the internal spring & Release Adjuster Position Lock Nut…+Remove the Clutch Inspection Cover (off the Primary Housing - Small Cover on '86-'93 - Large 'Derby Cover' on '94-up) (You may have to loosen or remove the left mid-mount foot peg) - be careful as you remove the cover because there is an internal spring & Release Adjuster Position Lock Nut - Remove the internal spring & Release Adjuster Position Lock Nut.
  
-Turn the center screw of the Release Adjuster clockwise one turn away from the original position to be sure you are fully unloading any pressure - then **slowly turn the Release Adjuster screw COUNTERCLOCKWISE until you feel ANY CHANGE IN TENSION** - Do this a few times to be sure you feel the right spot where tension begins – When you're satisfied you have the right spot, turn the adjuster screw back __clockwise 1/4 to 3/8 of a turn__ to be sure no preload tension is on the Diaphragm Spring.+Turn the center screw of the Release Adjuster clockwise one turn away from the original position to be sure you are fully unloading any pressure - then **slowly turn the Release Adjuster screw COUNTERCLOCKWISE until you feel ANY CHANGE IN TENSION** - Do this a few times to be sure you feel the right spot where tension begins – When you're satisfied you have the right spot, turn the adjuster screw back __clockwise 1/4 to 3/8 of a turn__ to be sure no preload tension is on the Diaphragm Spring & Pressure Plate.
  
 Place the Release Adjuster Position Lock Nut back in place (turning the screw farther __**CLOCKWISE ONLY - JUST ENOUGH**__  to get the nut to fit in the nearest position - Do not turn the screw more counterclockwise) - Place the spring back over the nut and place the Inspection Cover back onto the Primary Housing and retighten the foot peg if necessary… Place the Release Adjuster Position Lock Nut back in place (turning the screw farther __**CLOCKWISE ONLY - JUST ENOUGH**__  to get the nut to fit in the nearest position - Do not turn the screw more counterclockwise) - Place the spring back over the nut and place the Inspection Cover back onto the Primary Housing and retighten the foot peg if necessary…
Line 159: Line 161:
 **Side note**: **Side note**:
  
-   * It may be difficult to feel the right spot while turning the screw. <sup>((2)))</sup>  <sup>((3)))</sup>+  * It may be difficult to feel the right spot while turning the screw. <sup>((2))</sup>  <sup>((3))</sup>
   * You may want to grab the release arm and check for movement where the cable attaches.   * You may want to grab the release arm and check for movement where the cable attaches.
   * Play (or lack of play) is obvious there as you adjust the screw. \\ Check for movement there, same direction as the cable operating the release.   * Play (or lack of play) is obvious there as you adjust the screw. \\ Check for movement there, same direction as the cable operating the release.
   * You can easily feel the clearance change at the arm as you adjust the screw vs the vague feel you get at the screw.   * You can easily feel the clearance change at the arm as you adjust the screw vs the vague feel you get at the screw.
   * The "feel" at the release arm where the clutch cable attaches is very distinct so you have a high degree of confidence you got it right.   * The "feel" at the release arm where the clutch cable attaches is very distinct so you have a high degree of confidence you got it right.
 +  * There should be some play at the release arm to assure there is no preload tension on the Diaphragm Spring & Pressure Plate.
 +  * **See this XLForum Post for a discussion of the adjustments:** https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/203096-2005-xl1200r-clutch-adjustment-issues#post4531677\\
  
 Now, go back to the Clutch __Cable Adjuster__  - Unscrew the two parts to lengthen the Adjuster just enough that there is still 1/8" of free play in the clutch lever movement BEFORE IT BEGINS TO ENGAGE THE CLUTCH RELEASE (check this at the cable connection to the lever) - Now tighten the Jam Nut on the cable adjuster and move the rubber boot back over it… Now, go back to the Clutch __Cable Adjuster__  - Unscrew the two parts to lengthen the Adjuster just enough that there is still 1/8" of free play in the clutch lever movement BEFORE IT BEGINS TO ENGAGE THE CLUTCH RELEASE (check this at the cable connection to the lever) - Now tighten the Jam Nut on the cable adjuster and move the rubber boot back over it…
Line 171: Line 175:
 |  **NOW PUT THE TRANSMISSION IN NEUTRAL!!!**  | |  **NOW PUT THE TRANSMISSION IN NEUTRAL!!!**  |
 |  **BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL WHEN OPERATING THE BIKE AFTER MAKING A CLUTCH ADJUSTMENT\\ IF YOU GOT IT WRONG, THE BIKE MAY SURGE FORWARD WHEN YOU PUT IT IN GEAR\\ EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE THE CLUTCH LEVER PULLED FULLY AGAINST THE GRIP!!!\\ BE SAFE - CHECK & DOUBLE CHECK!!!**  | |  **BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL WHEN OPERATING THE BIKE AFTER MAKING A CLUTCH ADJUSTMENT\\ IF YOU GOT IT WRONG, THE BIKE MAY SURGE FORWARD WHEN YOU PUT IT IN GEAR\\ EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE THE CLUTCH LEVER PULLED FULLY AGAINST THE GRIP!!!\\ BE SAFE - CHECK & DOUBLE CHECK!!!**  |
 +
  
 \\ \\
Line 182: Line 187:
 **Pics - Adjusting clutch release screw on a 98 model** **Pics - Adjusting clutch release screw on a 98 model**
  
-{{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:adjusting_clutch_1_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:adjusting_clutch_2_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} \\+{{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:adjusting_clutch_1_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:adjusting_clutch_2_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} 
 +{{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:adjusting_clutch_3_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} \\
  
-{{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:adjusting_clutch_3_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:adjusting_clutch_4_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:adjusting_clutch_5_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} \\+{{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:adjusting_clutch_4_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:adjusting_clutch_5_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} \\
  
 \\ \\
Line 219: Line 225:
  
 When the original style bearing is worn out or damaged, it is a good time to consider an upgrade.\\ When the original style bearing is worn out or damaged, it is a good time to consider an upgrade.\\
-{{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutchreleasebearing-compare8885-7200b.jpg?400|}}  {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutchreleasebearing-destroyed8885.jpg?400|}}((Pics by goblin_dust at this thread: http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1987885 - Annotated by IXL2Relax at the XLForum))+{{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutchreleasebearing-compare8885-7200b.jpg?400|}}  {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutchreleasebearing-destroyed8885.jpg?400|}}((Pics by goblin_dust at this thread: https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/rubber-mount-sportster-motorcycle-talk-2004-2006/185780-clutch-woes?t=1987885 - Annotated by IXL2Relax at the XLForum))
  
 For more information, click this link to see the [[techtalk:ref:priclutch02#upgrade_clutch_release_bearing_-_hd_p_n_8885_to_7200b_angular_ball_bearing|Clutch Parts & Mods - Aftermarket]] page in the REFerence section. For more information, click this link to see the [[techtalk:ref:priclutch02#upgrade_clutch_release_bearing_-_hd_p_n_8885_to_7200b_angular_ball_bearing|Clutch Parts & Mods - Aftermarket]] page in the REFerence section.
Line 304: Line 310:
 \\ \\
  
-"Beginning in 2004, the 883 models started coming with a lighter clutch spring than the 1200's."((aswracing from http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1953378))\\+"Beginning in 2004, the 883 models started coming with a lighter clutch spring than the 1200's."((aswracing from https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/181426-i-m-no-sissy-but-clutch-pull?t=1953378))\\
 This was to reduce the effort required to pull the clutch lever. There was also a change in the\\ clutch cable in 2007 to help reduce the clutch lever effort. This was to reduce the effort required to pull the clutch lever. There was also a change in the\\ clutch cable in 2007 to help reduce the clutch lever effort.
  
-|  Notice the difference in the slots between the Diaphragm Spring fingers of '91-'03 and '04-later springs.\\ On the left is an '01 example and on the right is an '06 example. Both are 883 model springs.((http://xlforum.net/forums/showpost.php?p=4923807&postcount=7 - Graywolf))((http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49915 - CJBurr))  ||+| Notice the difference in the slots between the Diaphragm Spring fingers of '91-'03 and '04-later springs.\\ Above left is an '01 example and on the right is an '06 example. Both are 883 model springs.((https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/167902-barnett-clutch-install-questions?postcount=7#post3577542 - Graywolf))((https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/29955-06-clutch-install?t=49915 - CJBurr))\\ Below are two more examples of diaphragm springs.((pic from IXL2Relax)) ||
 |  {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutch-assy-01-883-stock-graywolf.jpg?300|}}  |  {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutch-assy-06-883-stock-cjburr.jpg?300|}}  | |  {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutch-assy-01-883-stock-graywolf.jpg?300|}}  |  {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutch-assy-06-883-stock-cjburr.jpg?300|}}  |
 +|  {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutch-diaphragm-spring-compare.jpg?600|}}  ||
  
 ====== Spring Plate Failure ====== ====== Spring Plate Failure ======
  
-As mentioned above, the Spring Plate is located in the middle of the clutch pack. It consists of two separate steel plates attached together with riveted, movable, flat springs sandwiched between the two steel plates. There is a friction plate on either side of the Spring Plate. The idea is to absorb some of the instantaneous force of the clutch engagement and release it over a few microseconds of spring energy transference. [[http://xlforum.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1142229&postcount=44|See this Post#44]]+As mentioned above, the Spring Plate is located in the middle of the clutch pack. It consists of two separate steel plates attached together with riveted, movable, flat springs sandwiched between the two steel plates. There is a friction plate on either side of the Spring Plate. The idea is to absorb some of the instantaneous force of the clutch engagement and release it over a few microseconds of spring energy transference. [[https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/46244-clutch-adjustment-under-derby-cover/page3?postcount=44#post987366|See this Post#44]]
  
 {{ :techtalk:evo:priclutch:springplate-good-westjc7745.jpg?300|}} {{ :techtalk:evo:priclutch:springplate-good-westjc7745.jpg?300|}}
Line 327: Line 334:
 Replacing the old Spring Plate with a new, stock Spring Plate is not a typical solution advocated on the XLForum, although it is an available one. Why replace a failure prone part with another of similar weakness? Replacing the old Spring Plate with a new, stock Spring Plate is not a typical solution advocated on the XLForum, although it is an available one. Why replace a failure prone part with another of similar weakness?
  
-The preferred choice is to eliminate the Spring Plate entirely by installing two extra steel plates & one extra friction plate. This works for 91 and up clutches. It is possible to accomplish on 86-90 models but due to the thicker friction plates in them, it will not work unless you have enough wear on your plates to get the total stack height down __below__ 1.5662". ((Hippysmack of the XLFORUM  http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5745421#post5745421))  While it is possible to do so on 91 and up models with stock plates, a more typical implementation for 86 and up models is using a complete aftermarket kit of new steel plates & friction plates. There are a number of suppliers of such kits, such as, Energy One, Barnett & Alto, in a number of different materials.+The preferred choice is to eliminate the Spring Plate entirely by installing two extra steel plates & one extra friction plate. This works for 91 and up clutches. It is possible to accomplish on 86-90 models but due to the thicker friction plates in them, it will not work unless you have enough wear on your plates to get the total stack height down __below__ 1.5662". ((Hippysmack of the XLFORUM  https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/frame-mount-evo-sportster-talk-1986-2003-models/183021-1986-90-evo-sportsters-what-every-owner-should-know-but-were-afraid-to-ask/page22#post4294992))  While it is possible to do so on 91 and up models with stock plates, a more typical implementation for 86 and up models is using a complete aftermarket kit of new steel plates & friction plates. There are a number of suppliers of such kits, such as, Energy One, Barnett & Alto, in a number of different materials.
  
 This solution does make the clutch engagement a bit more 'grabby' and there is sometimes an associated 'squeel'. But most users prefer the peace-of-mind of eliminating the Spring Plate despite these 'drawbacks'. This solution does make the clutch engagement a bit more 'grabby' and there is sometimes an associated 'squeel'. But most users prefer the peace-of-mind of eliminating the Spring Plate despite these 'drawbacks'.
Line 333: Line 340:
 Some power shifting users take this opportunity to replace the stock Diaphragm Spring with one that is stronger. Others try to avoid making the clutch lever pull harder and may even install clutch release kits that ease the clutch lever pull. Some power shifting users take this opportunity to replace the stock Diaphragm Spring with one that is stronger. Others try to avoid making the clutch lever pull harder and may even install clutch release kits that ease the clutch lever pull.
  
-If you have an actual failure of the Spring Plate, with missing rivets having been strewn around the primary cavity, be sure to check everywhere those bits may have gone. The clutch basket may have been scored by the failure which will require careful filing to remove any burrs or, if bad enough, may require replacing the clutch basket. If not properly repaired, the new plates will not move smoothly to release the clutch engagement.+<font 14px/Arial> 
 +**Repairing the Damage** 
 +</font> 
 + 
 +If you have a failure of the Spring Plate, with missing rivets having been strewn around the primary cavity, be sure to check everywhere those bits may have gone. The clutch basket is likely to have been scored by the failure. When the rivets fail, the spring strips that the rivets were holding will now slip out from between the steel plates of the spring plate. Exactly where the spring plate is located in the stack these spring strips make a gouge in the clutch basket (and in the clutch hub). This will require careful filing to remove any burrs created by the gouging or, if bad enough, may require replacing the clutch basket & hub. 
 + 
 +Use a fine file and carefully check & smooth every finger of the clutch basket that has a gouge (see the pic below). You want to file the side and top corner where the finger is gouged. DO NOT FILE more than necessary to smooth that side face & corner. It is not necessary to remove the flat portion of the gouge from the finger. Due to the friction plate design, they ride on the sides of the fingers & not the top flat portion (this applies to the hub fingers as well). File off only enough metal for a perfectly smooth movement along the side face and inward corners of the fingers. **If not properly repaired, the new plates will not move smoothly to release the clutch during dis-engagement.**
  
-Also, the existing clutch plates (either steels or frictions) may have been warped during the failure. If the Spring Plate disintegrated, it is best to replace all the steels & frictions to avoild carrying damaged parts foward to damage new parts. You should also carefully check that the Pressure Plate & Release Plate have not been damaged, nor any other primary components (chain, sprockets, etc).+Also, the existing clutch plates (either steels or frictions) may have been warped or otherwise damaged during the spring plate failure. If the Spring Plate failed, it is best to replace all the steels & frictions to avoild carrying damaged parts forward to damage new parts. You should also carefully check that the Pressure Plate & Release Plate have not been damaged, nor any other primary components (chain, sprockets, etc).
  
 Here are images of the carnage resulting from the Spring Plate Failure:\\ Here are images of the carnage resulting from the Spring Plate Failure:\\
-{{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutchbasket-springplaterivets-blown-jbyun.jpg?250|}}((Image by jbyun - xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49915)){{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutchbasket-rivetdamage-blown-vferdman.jpg?250|}}((Image by vferdman - xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49915)){{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:springplate-blown-xlxr.jpg?250|}}((Image by xlxr - xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=302142))+{{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutchbasket-springplaterivets-blown-jbyun.jpg?280|}}((Image by jbyun - https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/29955-06-clutch-install?t=49915)){{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutchbasket-rivetdamage-blown-vferdman.jpg?280|}}((Image by vferdman - https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/29955-06-clutch-install?t=49915)){{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:springplate-blown-xlxr.jpg?280|}}((Image by xlxr - https://www.xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=302142))
  
 \\ \\
  
-**NOTE:** Alto has released an upgraded Spring Plate design for the '91-later Sportsters - Alto P/N 095763HD (as of August 2019). It utilizes Stainless Steel rivets instead of the previous Brass Rivets design. Time will tell if this is more reliable.((Rocketmangb at http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2074441)) [[https://www.altousa.com/images/new_products/Alto__095763HD_Harley_Davidson_Spring_Plate_with_NEW_Stainless_Rivets.pdf|>>>Link To Alto PDF<<<]]+**NOTE:** Alto has released an upgraded Spring Plate design for the '91-later Sportsters - Alto P/N 095763HD (as of August 2019). It utilizes Stainless Steel rivets instead of the previous Brass Rivets design. Time will tell if this is more reliable.((Rocketmangb at https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/197759-grenade-plate?t=2074441)) [[https://www.altousa.com/images/new_products/Alto__095763HD_Harley_Davidson_Spring_Plate_with_NEW_Stainless_Rivets.pdf|>>>Link To Alto PDF<<<]]
  
 \\ \\

Trace: • REF: Tools - 123