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techtalk:ih:engmech02 [2020/08/25 16:37] hippysmack [Camshaft Shims] |
techtalk:ih:engmech02 [2023/04/14 19:42] hippysmack [Pinion Gear] |
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|CAM 3 → ((photo by supr2nr of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=239641&highlight=cam+positions))|CAM 4 → ((photo by supr2nr of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=239641&highlight=cam+positions))|All done. ✔((photo by supr2nr of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=239641&highlight=cam+positions))| | |CAM 3 → ((photo by supr2nr of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=239641&highlight=cam+positions))|CAM 4 → ((photo by supr2nr of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=239641&highlight=cam+positions))|All done. ✔((photo by supr2nr of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=239641&highlight=cam+positions))| | ||
|{{:techtalk:ih:engmech:installing_76_cams_5_by_supr2nr.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:engmech:installing_76_cams_6_by_supr2nr.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:engmech:installing_76_cams_7_by_supr2nr.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ih:engmech:installing_76_cams_5_by_supr2nr.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:engmech:installing_76_cams_6_by_supr2nr.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:engmech:installing_76_cams_7_by_supr2nr.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
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- | ====== Installing the Pinion Gear ====== | ||
- | |||
- | * From the 79 to 85 FM, there is a timing mark on the pinion shaft and a timing mark on the pinion gear. These must line up. ((IronMick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=239641&highlight=cam+positions&page=3)) | ||
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- | |{{:techtalk:ih:engmech:pinionshafttimemark_by_ironmick.jpg?direct&200|}}| | ||
- | |Pinion Shaft Timing Mark ((photo by IronMick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=239641&highlight=cam+positions&page=3))| | ||
====== Camshaft Shims ====== | ====== Camshaft Shims ====== | ||
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===== Sub-Documents ===== | ===== Sub-Documents ===== | ||
* . . . [[techtalk:ih:engmech02a|Gearcase Cover Removal]] | * . . . [[techtalk:ih:engmech02a|Gearcase Cover Removal]] | ||
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- Old style gearcase covers (XLH 25227-81) and (XLS 25229-81) have a rubber plug on the lower left. | - Old style gearcase covers (XLH 25227-81) and (XLS 25229-81) have a rubber plug on the lower left. | ||
- New style gearcase covers (XLH 25208-81) and (XLS 25209-81) replaced the rubber plug with a hex capscrew and also contains the extra mounting hole (top left). | - New style gearcase covers (XLH 25208-81) and (XLS 25209-81) replaced the rubber plug with a hex capscrew and also contains the extra mounting hole (top left). | ||
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====== Pinion Gear ====== | ====== Pinion Gear ====== | ||
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**Compatibility** | **Compatibility** | ||
+ | 1957-1985 pinion gears have 18 teeth and splines to match the splined pinion shaft. \\ | ||
+ | 1957-1976 pinion gears have 4 splines. \\ | ||
+ | 1977-1985 pinion gears have 6 splines. \\ | ||
|Part#|Year Models| | |Part#|Year Models| | ||
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|24060-74 (yellow)|:::| | |24060-74 (yellow)|:::| | ||
|24061-74 (black)|:::| | |24061-74 (black)|:::| | ||
+ | |||
+ | Click on any pic below to enlarge: \\ | ||
+ | | 1957-1976 Pinion Gear. ((photo courtesy of Ebay seller, Evil Genius M/C Parts. [[https://www.ebay.com/str/evilgeniusmcparts?_trksid=p2047675.l2563|Link to Ebay Store]] )) || | ||
+ | |{{:techtalk:ih:engmech:pinion_gear_pic2_24011-37_by_evilgeniushd1936.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:engmech:pinion_gear_pic1_24011-37_by_evilgeniushd1936.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
+ | |||
+ | |1977-1985 Pinion Shaft Timing Mark ((photo by IronMick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=239641&highlight=cam+positions&page=3))| | ||
+ | |{{:techtalk:ih:engmech:pinionshafttimemark_by_ironmick.jpg?direct&200|}}| | ||
+ | |||
+ | | 1977-1985 Pinion Gear (24057-74) ((photos courtesy of Ebay seller, Robison Motorcycles [[https://www.ebay.com/str/robisonmotorcycles?_trksid=p2047675.l2563|Link to Ebay Store]] )) || 1977-1985 Pinion Gear (24056-74) App. Dims ((photos courtesy of Ebay seller, Robison Motorcycles [[https://www.ebay.com/str/robisonmotorcycles?_trksid=p2047675.l2563|Link to Ebay Store]] )) | | ||
+ | |{{:techtalk:ih:engmech:pinion_gear_24057-74_pic2_by_robisonmotorcycles.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:engmech:pinion_gear_24057-74_pic1_by_robisonmotorcycles.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:engmech:pinion_gear_24056-74_app_dims_by_robison_motorcycles.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
+ | |||
+ | ===== Pinion Gear Fit on Shaft ===== | ||
+ | ==== 1957-1976 gear ==== | ||
+ | Comments by Dr Dick; \\ | ||
+ | Installing a tight gear: If you tap the gear on the shaft you are tapping on your flywheel assembly in a direction not supported by anything. NOT recommended. \\ | ||
+ | You should utilize the 5/16"-24 left hand threads tapped in the pinion shaft to counteract installing force (press it in). \\ | ||
+ | |||
+ | The 1957-1976 pinion gear needs to be a tight fit and was a factory press fit. However, it's a common problem to find them loose on a used engine. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1072235)) \\ | ||
+ | The trick in selecting the right fit part during assembly. The gear is supposed to be "size for size" with the major diameter of the shaft splines. \\ | ||
+ | The "press" actually is between the sides of 1 male shaft spline and it's matching female spline in gear. \\ | ||
+ | There is 1 bigger spline so the gear can index for cam timing. The press spline is the one opposite the bigger one. \\ | ||
+ | The bad news is the shaft wears before the gear. The XL gear is beefier where the pump drive gear hits the back of the pinion gear. \\ | ||
+ | It's beefier because HD also had these failures. \\ | ||
+ | However, leaving the gear loose makes you 1 of 80% of Ironhead riders. Worse side effect is non stop "tappet noise". \\ | ||
+ | It can be heard even just pushing the motor over with kicker. \\ | ||
+ | It's usually not "destructive" problem to leave it as is and you can't use an adhesive to "glue" the pinion gear on. \\ | ||
+ | |||
+ | (1) - A loose gear doesn't mess with breather timing too much. A correctly positioned gear sits .312" above the gasket surface. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4332256#post4332256)) \\ The cover bushing face sits .312" below gasket surface. So the gear clears the bushing by 1 gasket thickness. \\ A loose gear rides on the bushing face. There is virtually little breather timing difference between the tight position and the loose one. \\ A shim between gears can make up for the loose position. This shim mustn't self destruct and get caught in cam train. \\ | ||
+ | (2) - A loose gear will make a valve tapping type noise. No mechanical problems, just a tad noisy. Looser = noisier. \\ | ||
+ | (3) - The gear press isn't diametrical. Its lateral. When loose both gear and shaft wear. \\ When a loose gear is removed you will see the wear on shaft spline flanks. \\ | ||
+ | {{:techtalk:ih:engmech:1957-1976_pinion_gear_press_fit_pic1_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&400|}} ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4332256#post4332256)) \\ | ||
+ | 4) Bikes using stock valve springs can use a 45" flat head gear to regain some fit. \\ I have done this many times. Probably 50 times. \\ | ||
+ | These gears are OEM WWII surplus (-29 pn). Many times marketed as XL but they are not the real XL gear. The real xl gears have been obsolete for decades. \\ | ||
+ | **Warning**: I also had two 45" gear failures. Both big bore strokers. Both heavy springs and cams. Both bikes ridden extremely hard. \\ | ||
+ | Both gears very tightly fitted to unworn shafts. Broken pinion gears make a serious mess of your motor. $$$$ \\ | ||
+ | Worst case scenario, you will be looking at new cylinders, pistons, heads, valves, guides, pushrods, cams and cam cover. You don't wanna go there. \\ | ||
+ | I suggest never to use the 45" gears on unworn shafts. Or with cams that require heavy springs. \\ | ||
+ | {{:techtalk:ih:engmech:1957-1976_pinion_gear_press_fit_pic2_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&400|}} | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | ==== 1977-1985 Gear ==== | ||
+ | The 79-85 pinion gear slides up on a timing mark on the pinion shaft and corresponding to a timing mark on the pinion gear. These must line up. ((IronMick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=239641&highlight=cam+positions&page=3)) | ||