Differences

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--- techtalk:ih:oil06 [2020/09/21 16:55]
hippysmack [Test for Excess Primary Compartment Vacuum (77-85)]
+++ techtalk:ih:oil06 [2021/02/19 21:59]
hippysmack [Transmission Vent Hose (77-85)]
@@ Line 45: / Line 45: @@
   * **If engine uses too much oil**;
     * Check the breather valve for incorrect timing (57-76) or a plugged or non flexible condition (77-85).
-    * On models with a chain oiler, adjust the chain oiler adjusting screw to make sure it's not over oiling.
+    * On 57-76 models with a chain oiler, turn the adjusting screw to make sure it's not over oiling or just plug it off.
     * Crankcase pressure restrictions. Look for kinks / restrictions in the oil tank vent line or breather vent. \\ Also check for a plugged oil filter (if applicable).
     * Loose parts. Look for external oil leaks.
@@ Line 193: / Line 193: @@
   * **If you have an oil leak from anywhere, the oil tank is subject to having oil all over it**.
     * It is an accumulation of spills from filling, blowback from engine gaskets / seals / breathers and road grunge.
-  * **The best way to find out if the oil tank is leaking is to clean it up** (try some blue dawn and a nylon brush). \\ (and use some spray SOFT-N-DRI or talcum powder in the area) See [[start|Leaking with Engine Running]] below.
+  * **The best way to find out if the oil tank is leaking is to clean it up** (try some blue dawn and a nylon brush). \\ (and use some spray SOFT-N-DRI or talcum powder in the area) See [[techtalk:ih:oil06#leaking_with_engine_running_weeping_gaskets|Leaking with Engine Running]] below.
   * **83-93 oil tanks are prone to cracking and leaking where the oil tank and battery tray are connected**.
     * Fractures were due to poorly supporting the weight of the battery. ((Four Speed of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1971026)) \\ Harley offered 62472-93A and 62482-93A oil tank upgrade kits for replacement (94-96 tank assembly). \\ However, the original oil tank can be reinforced and welded.
@@ Line 202: / Line 202: @@
     * Our bikes have 2 oil pumps. A supply pump (the skinny gear set) & a return pump (the thicker gears). ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1244538&page=2)) \\ The return pump has a larger flow than the supply pump. This is to make sure any oil that get pumped in definitely gets pumped back out. \\ If you watch the return oil as it goes back to the tank you will see it returns in "spurts". \\ The oil part of the spurts matches the amount that the feed is pulling from tank. \\ That's why the oil level in the tank remains the same while the bike is running. \\ The air part of the spurts is the extra cap of the return pump over the supply. \\ So the return would pressurize the tank because it's pumping this extra air back. \\ Air pressure in the tank is relieved thru the vent line back to the camcase where it came from in the 1st place. \\ That's why the vent line is always the highest one on the tank so it's above the oil level. \\ If it was below the oil level, oil would be forced into the camcase causing wetsumping.
     * Oil carry over may occur while driving the vehicle at highway speeds. The amount of carry over is directly related to the amount of restriction. ((HD Tech Tips dated November 8, 1985)) \\ More restriction equals more carryover. \\ In most cases the restriction is minor and translates to a small amount of carry over, which if left alone creates a bothersome mess. \\ Start looking for pinched hoses or a restrictive oil filter. \\ Pull the line off at the tank and make sure you can blow through it into the cam gear case. \\ Then blow through the oil tank fitting with the lid off and make sure that path is clear.
+===== Chain Oiler (57-76) =====
+The chain oiler is a designed leak to keep the chain from rusting up. \\
+Most will either plug the oiler fitting with a bolt / screw or remove the oiler fitting and install an 1/8"x27 NPT plug there and oil the chain by other means. \\
 ===== Cam Cover or Primary Cover =====
@@ Line 237: / Line 242: @@
 |  Pulling oil seal gently with small bicycle tire iron. ((photo by Hopper of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=209347&page=11))  |
 |{{:techtalk:ih:oil:removing_cam_seal_in_cover_by_hopper.jpg?direct&300|}}|
-===== Cam Gear Oiler ('85 only) =====
-Starting with crankcase number 785 303 002, manufactured after October 29, 1984, a cam gear oiler was installed in the gearcase ceiling. ((HD TSB #M-899 dated November 30, 1984)) \\
-The cam gear oiler directs oil from the top end oil passage to the gear mesh between first and second gears and third and fourth gears. \\
-Direct lubrication of the gear teeth allows tighter gear fitment. Gear backlash and noise are reduced. \\
-  * The oiler tube has restricted orifices to spray the gears and still retain main oil feed pressure from whence the oil came (top oil feed galley).
-  * There is an O-ring on the oiler tube nipple that is pressed into the ceiling of the gearcase.
-    * If the O-ring fails to seal the oiler tube, feed oil pressure to the top end could be low. \\ You probably wouldn't see a leak as it would be inside the gearcase.
-|Cam oiler tube hole in gearcase. ((photo by Iron Mike of the XLFORUM, labeled by Hippysmack http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1750617&page=116))  |  Cam gear oiler installed. ((photo by iNSaNeSHaNe of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1750617&page=122))  |
-|{{:techtalk:ih:engmech:1985_cam_gear_oiler_gearcase_by_iron_mike.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:engmech:1985_cam_gear_oiler_by_insaneshane.jpg?direct&300|}}|
 ===== Breather Vent / Tube =====
@@ Line 273: / Line 265: @@
     - Driving at steady highway speeds? See [[techtalk:ref:oil10|Click here for Wet Sumping]] at high RPM.
     - After the bike's been sitting for a couple of days and you start it up? See [[techtalk:ref:oil10#sit_sumpimg|Click here for Sit Sumping]].
-    - Is the oil tank cap leaking or popping off? See [[techtalk:ref:oil01#overfilling_the_oil_tank|Overfilling the Oil Tank]]  and [[techtalk:ref:oil04#oil_tank_pressure|Oil Tank Pressure]] in the Sportsterpedia.
+    - Is the oil tank cap leaking or popping off? See [[techtalk:ref:oil01#overfilling_the_oil_tank|Overfilling the Oil Tank]]  and [[techtalk:ref:oil20|Oil Tank Pressure]] in the Sportsterpedia.
   - **Clean the affected area and ride or run the bike and reproduce the problem with the breather hose in a baby bottle (or other) test catch can** [[techtalk:ref:engmech04?s[]=catch&s[]=can#breather_catch_can_test_for_oil_leaks_out_the_vent|as described here]]. \\ This will help you better understand the amount of carryover you're dealing with. \\
   - **Start the diagnostics and separate the systems qualifying each one as you go**.
@@ Line 333: / Line 325: @@
 ===== Timing Inspection Plug / Drain Plugs =====
-  * These have been common areas for an oil leaks.
+  * **These have been common areas for an oil leaks**.
     * Over-torque during installation and heat / expansion during use seems to be the primary cause of distorting the threads.
-    * [[techtalk:ref:engmech01a#timing_inspection_hole_and_plug_-_sealing_and_thread_repair|Click here]] for Timing Inspection Hole and Plug - Sealing and Thread Repair.
+    * Look for stripped threads or fixes by the PO that may not have sealed properly.
+  * **The 57-76 (only) primary drain plug is the one most will say DO NOT Touch unless ir is already leaking**.
+    * This is due to it's location being very near the case seam.
+    * See [[techtalk:ref:oil01#sportster_drain_plugs_explained|Sportster Drain Plugs Explained]] for more information regarding drain plugs for various year models.
+  * **Repair**. (see these links in the Sportsterpedia)
+    * [[techtalk:ref:engmech01a|Timing Inspection Hole and Plug - Sealing and Thread Repair]]
+    * [[techtalk:ref:engmech01d|Drain Plug Sealing and Temporary Fixes]]
+|  On 57-76 engines, look for a crack at the primary drain plug. ((photo by Shadowdog500 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=806833&highlight=drilling+tapping+drain&page=2)) ((photo by ss396 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1864035&highlight=Ironhead+Crankcase+Drain+Plug))  ||
+|{{techtalk:ih:oil:ih_drain_plugs_by_shadowdog500.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{techtalk:ih:oil:ih_oil_drain_plug_2_by_ss396.jpg?direct&300|}}|
 ===== Clutch Cable or Connection to the Primary Cover =====
@@ Line 401: / Line 402: @@
     * It could be the main shaft seal or counter shaft bearing that's leaking also.
     * Too much torque on the retainer bolts can split the gasket.
+    * Inside the case there is a trough along the roof of the trans compartment that catches oil to drip thru the arbitrary hole behind the seal. ((mrmom9r of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1477118&page=2)) \\ It's an oiler hole to let oil gravity feed to oil outer half of bearing.
+    * Check that the surface where the seal runs on your drive sprocket isn't rough. ((russzx6 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1477118&page=2)) They can be rough from new and will chew a seal up in no time. \\ Also put a little sealant on the splines when you put the sprocket on.
+  * **Welch plug**.
+    * The welch plug for the shift fork shaft hole can leak. ((mrmom9r of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1477118&page=2))
+    * This hole supports the outer end of the shaft that the shift forks ride on and a small plug is pressed in the hole on the outside of the case. \\ Very common leak, sometimes the plug is knocked out by accident during trans. assembly. Sometimes they just weep on their own. \\ It's located at about 4 o'clock from the mainshaft yet still hidden behind the sprocket. You can use JB Weld if the plug is still present - replace the plug if it's not present.
-|  Mainshaft sprocket gasket leak. ((photo by Roane of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2076964))  |  Split gasket from tightening too much. ((photo by IronMick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2070501&page=37))  |
+|  Oiler hole behind seal is blocked off by the seal. ((photo by Ironhead_Ed of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1477118))  |
+|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:oiler_hole_behind_sprocket_seal_by_ironhead_ed.jpg?direct&300|}}|
+|  Mainshaft sprocket gasket leak. ((photo by Roane of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2076964))  |  Gasket split from tightening too much. ((photo by IronMick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2070501&page=37))  |
 |{{:techtalk:ih:oil:mainshaft_sprocket_gasket_leak_by_roane.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:split_sprocket_gasket_by_ironmick.jpg?direct&300|}}|
 ====== Diagnosing the Cause of Oil Leaks ======
 See also in the Sportsterpedia: \\
@@ Line 435: / Line 446: @@
     * **Engine breather valves**.
       * 77-up:
-        *  These are often thought of as being akin auto PCV valves although the construction is different. \\ 77-78 had a spring load disc valve, 79-E82 had a reed valve and L82-up had a rubber flap (known as an umbrella valve). \\ Either are installed in a contained compartment to separate oil / air mist. \\ The oil is directed back into the engine and the air exits the engine thru breather vent(s), (1) 86-90 and (2) 91-up.
+        *  These are often thought of as being akin to auto PCV valves although the construction is different. \\ 77-78 had a spring load disc valve, 79-E82 had a reed valve and L82-up had a rubber flap (known as an umbrella valve). \\ Either are installed in a contained compartment to separate oil / air mist. \\ The oil is directed back into the engine and the air exits the engine thru breather vent(s), (1) 86-90 and (2) 91-up.
         * Worn or non functioning breather valve(s) will not react to engine RPM as fast as newer one(s).
           * They can cause a glob of oil to puke out the vent(s).
           * They can cause a buildup of vacuum in the crankcase that pushes and pulls on gaskets and seals causing them to leak oil and blow out seals.
+          * Gaskets, seals, the case seam and many other leaks often are a result of high pressure swings from positive to negative pressure changes.
+            * In 57-76 engines, the breather gear not timed correctly or wetsumping should checked off the list.
+            * 77-up engines, a non functioning breather valve is usually the first suspect of these problems.
           * They can cause a thicker oil condition (air and oil froth or bubbling) making oil scavenging more tiresome for the oil pump = more engine heat.
     * **In a perfect world, you would only have a slight oil mist coming out of the crankcase breather**. \\ (now routed into the air cleaner, keeping the E.P.A. happy by depositing the oil back into the engine instead of dripping on the ground).
@@ Line 608: / Line 622: @@
 Blow on the hose end to make sure you can push air thru it. Do not used compressed air as that can damage the sprocket shaft seal. \\
 Reroute the hose if it is showing a kink in placement or replace it if you can't blow through it. \\
+You can also take off the primary chain inspection cap and blow air into the primary compartment. \\
+You should hear and feel the air come out of the inspection hole and with the cap off, you are not pressurizing anything too much. ((IronMick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=944018&page=2)) \\
 There should be no sags in the hose between the attachment to the engine and the open end of the hose. \\
 The hose should route up from the engine and loop down open ended to allow air to escape and oil to separate from the air and drop back down into the tranny compartment. \\

Trace: • EVO: Wheels, Brakes & Tires - Sub-02L • REF: Engine Mechanicals • IH: Engine Control - Sub-01F • W E L C O M E !

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