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techtalk:ref:genmsr05 [2022/11/21 02:58] hippysmack [Connecting Rods / Crankshaft / Flywheels] |
techtalk:ref:genmsr05 [2024/01/15 19:14] hippysmack |
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| See also [[techtalk:ref:genmsr06#using_a_stethoscope_or_other_to_hunt_down_engine_noises|Using a Stethoscope or Other to Hunt Down Engine Noises]] in the REF section of the Sportsterpedia. \\ | See also [[techtalk:ref:genmsr06#using_a_stethoscope_or_other_to_hunt_down_engine_noises|Using a Stethoscope or Other to Hunt Down Engine Noises]] in the REF section of the Sportsterpedia. \\ | ||
| - | Noise and Vibration are normal for a Harley. ((Recon Dad of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=823082)) \\ | + | Noise and Vibration are normal for a Harley. ((Recon Dad of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/efi-sportster-motorcycle-talk-2007-and-up/97463-engine-noise?t=823082)) \\ |
| - | In fact, they are an amalgamation of vibration, sort of a syncopated pandemonium. ((Ireeman of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2072940&page=3)) \\ | + | In fact, they are an amalgamation of vibration, sort of a syncopated pandemonium. ((Ireeman of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-general-discussion-and-problems/196416-what%C2%92s-that-sound/page3?t=2072940&page=3)) \\ |
| - | Harmful noises are hard to determine without a well trained ear and these engines make a lot of noise anyway. ((milmat1 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1902363&highlight=stethoscope#post1902363)) \\ | + | Harmful noises are hard to determine without a well trained ear and these engines make a lot of noise anyway. ((milmat1 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-bottom-end/72005-knocking-apparently-big-end?highlight=stethoscope#post1506806)) \\ |
| Plus the sound travels through the cases to places other than where it originates. \\ | Plus the sound travels through the cases to places other than where it originates. \\ | ||
| So critical listening is a must as a noise on one side of the engine may sound more like another area instead. \\ | So critical listening is a must as a noise on one side of the engine may sound more like another area instead. \\ | ||
| - | There was an article in Cycle World back in '83 that said the noises a healthy Ironhead makes would be considered terminal on other makes. ((83XLX of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=832376)) \\ | + | There was an article in Cycle World back in '83 that said the noises a healthy Ironhead makes would be considered terminal on other makes. ((83XLX of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/98047-ironhead-noise?t=832376)) \\ |
| In becoming familiar with the "normal" noises, you can just keep an ear out for abnormal ones as you're speeding down the road. \\ | In becoming familiar with the "normal" noises, you can just keep an ear out for abnormal ones as you're speeding down the road. \\ | ||
| - | They all sound a little different though, which is really unique. ((fergerburger of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=832376)) \\ | + | They all sound a little different though, which is really unique. ((fergerburger of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/98047-ironhead-noise?t=832376)) \\ |
| - | Of course the closer you are to the point of origin of a noise the louder it will be. ((Ferrous Head of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=977525&page=4)) \\ | + | Of course the closer you are to the point of origin of a noise the louder it will be. ((Ferrous Head of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/107497-using-a-stethoscope-to-listen-to-the-engine/page4?t=977525&page=4)) \\ |
| You sometimes get random noises too and they are generally chassis related. \\ | You sometimes get random noises too and they are generally chassis related. \\ | ||
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| Larger bearings like mains "rumble" when they are worn, but also if they aren't getting enough oil for whatever reason. \\ | Larger bearings like mains "rumble" when they are worn, but also if they aren't getting enough oil for whatever reason. \\ | ||
| - | | Mechanic stethoscope. ((photos by asasial of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=977525&page=3)) | A wooden dowel for a listening tool. ((photos by Hippysmack)) | | + | | Mechanic stethoscope. ((photos by asasial of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/107497-using-a-stethoscope-to-listen-to-the-engine/page3?t=977525&page=3)) | A wooden dowel for a listening tool. ((photos by Hippysmack)) | |
| |{{:techtalk:ref:tools:stethoscope_1_by_asasial.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:tools:listening_stick_2_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ref:tools:stethoscope_1_by_asasial.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:tools:listening_stick_2_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
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| ===== Critical Listening ===== | ===== Critical Listening ===== | ||
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| If you find that it is an internal engine noise, don't go straight to your tool box and put your blinders on. ((HD Tech Tip dated April 1986)) \\ | If you find that it is an internal engine noise, don't go straight to your tool box and put your blinders on. ((HD Tech Tip dated April 1986)) \\ | ||
| It's hard to check oil pressure, cylinder compression, timing or locate the noise if the motor is in now little pieces. \\ | It's hard to check oil pressure, cylinder compression, timing or locate the noise if the motor is in now little pieces. \\ | ||
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| ====== Comparing Noises From Other Bikes ====== | ====== Comparing Noises From Other Bikes ====== | ||
| - | Imports are liquid cooled, and that in and of itself kills a lot of engine noise that would normally get to your ears due to: ((DG_Sportster of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=823082)) \\ | + | Imports are liquid cooled, and that in and of itself kills a lot of engine noise that would normally get to your ears due to: ((DG_Sportster of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/efi-sportster-motorcycle-talk-2007-and-up/97463-engine-noise?t=823082)) \\ |
| * Closer tolerances allowed by liquid cooling. | * Closer tolerances allowed by liquid cooling. | ||
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| ====== Noise From Vibration ====== | ====== Noise From Vibration ====== | ||
| - | Harley-Davidson uses a common crank pin, meaning that both pistons travel up and down together at the same time. ((xllent01 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1721404)) \\ | + | Harley-Davidson uses a common crank pin, meaning that both pistons travel up and down together at the same time. ((xllent01 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-general-discussion-and-problems/160409-rpm-related-vibrations?t=1721404)) \\ |
| So all the weight is being thrown back and forth causing vibrations and the very particular “proprietary” sound or rumble. \\ | So all the weight is being thrown back and forth causing vibrations and the very particular “proprietary” sound or rumble. \\ | ||
| Keeping the motor above 3000 rpm's will smooth the vibrations out dramatically. \\ | Keeping the motor above 3000 rpm's will smooth the vibrations out dramatically. \\ | ||
| - | We can learn to live with it if we know what some of the symptoms are, or we can try to reduce it in many ways. ((xllent01 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-3983.html)) \\ | + | We can learn to live with it if we know what some of the symptoms are, or we can try to reduce it in many ways. ((xllent01 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-general-discussion-and-problems/2652-what-s-all-the-deal-about-vibration)) \\ |
| Look for loose fasteners and hardware. \\ | Look for loose fasteners and hardware. \\ | ||
| The engine and transmission mounts that are loose especially the top motor mount. | The engine and transmission mounts that are loose especially the top motor mount. | ||
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| Timing can cause vibrations. \\ | Timing can cause vibrations. \\ | ||
| - | A lot of the vibration depends on the rpm and gear you are riding in. These motors do not like to be lugged. ((BWP 5p of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=27701&page=27)) \\ | + | A lot of the vibration depends on the rpm and gear you are riding in. These motors do not like to be lugged. ((BWP 5p of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/rubber-mount-sportster-motorcycle-talk-2004-2006/16552-vibration-problem-solved-check-your-front-engine-mount-bolt/page27?t=27701&page=27)) \\ |
| Move the timing 1 degree more advanced and test ride. Then move it one degree retarded from original setting and test ride. \\ | Move the timing 1 degree more advanced and test ride. Then move it one degree retarded from original setting and test ride. \\ | ||
| - | You will find you can tune out some vibrations at certain rpms moving the timing slightly. ((Shu of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1662083)) \\ | + | You will find you can tune out some vibrations at certain rpms moving the timing slightly. ((Shu of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/frame-mount-evo-sportster-talk-1986-2003-models/154889-speed-and-vibration?t=1662083)) \\ |
| Tires can cause vibrations. \\ | Tires can cause vibrations. \\ | ||
| - | Worn or under-inflated tires can develop cupping in the tread that can create a lot of vibes. ((Hexlobular of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1662083&page=2)) \\ | + | Worn or under-inflated tires can develop cupping in the tread that can create a lot of vibes. ((Hexlobular of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/frame-mount-evo-sportster-talk-1986-2003-models/154889-speed-and-vibration/page2?t=1662083&page=2)) \\ |
| You might not notice them all the time, but they can create a buzzy ride at certain speeds. \\ | You might not notice them all the time, but they can create a buzzy ride at certain speeds. \\ | ||
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| The primary is a big hollow chamber and it will amplify any noise coming from anywhere in the engine. ((KevinJ of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=3399889&highlight=stethoscope#post3399889)) \\ | The primary is a big hollow chamber and it will amplify any noise coming from anywhere in the engine. ((KevinJ of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=3399889&highlight=stethoscope#post3399889)) \\ | ||
| - | Primary Chain: \\ | + | * **Symptom: Whining or Chirping Noise** \\ A primary chain that's adjusted too tight can make a whining or chirping noise. Reportedly, the chirping noise can come on after some full throttle and hard shifting when the primary chain is too tight / bike hot. ((Gcram399 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1529681&highlight=stethoscope&page=2)) \\ **Condition: Chain out of adjustment** \\ One method of adjusting a tight primary chain: With the bike hot and running in neutral, loosen the nut, turn the adjuster in until it starts to whine, then back it off 1/4 turn. ((wedge of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1529681&highlight=stethoscope)) Then ride it and make sure it's not whining any longer. \\ |
| - | **Symptoms**: \\ | + | * **Symptom: Rattling noise**. \\ A rattle that you cannot adjust out is a sign of a stretched chain. ((bitpusher of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1178157&highlight=stethoscope&page=2)). If your primary chain is too tight, that can cause a vibration that is felt in the pegs. ((semjpm of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=27701&page=27)) \\ **Condition: Stretched Chain** |
| - | A primary chain that's adjusted too tight can make a whining or chirping noise. \\ | + | * **Symptom: Rattling or Squeaking Noise**. \\ The sprocket nut can work loose and the noise is from the rotor eating itself up on the crank splines. If it's bad enough, it can end up breaking the end of the crankshaft off. ((JstColli of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=3399889&highlight=stethoscope#post3399889)) \\ **Condition: Loose sprocket nut**. \\ |
| - | Reportedly, the chirping noise can come on after some full throttle and hard shifting when the primary chain is too tight / bike hot. ((Gcram399 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1529681&highlight=stethoscope&page=2)) \\ | + | * **Symptom: Squeaking Noise**. \\ A squeaking noise seemingly from the area of the generator. ((jmmarks70 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1786179&highlight=motor+mount+noise&page=2)) \\ **Condition: Loose / damaged chain adjuster**. |
| - | Rattling noise. \\ | + | |
| - | A rattle that you cannot adjust out is a sign of a stretched chain. ((bitpusher of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1178157&highlight=stethoscope&page=2)) \\ | + | |
| - | If your primary chain is too tight, that can cause a vibration that is felt in the pegs. ((semjpm of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=27701&page=27)) \\ | + | |
| - | **Condition**: \\ | + | | 75 primary adjuster damage. ((photos by jmmarks70 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1786179&highlight=motor+mount+noise)) ||| |
| - | Chain out of adjustment. \\ | + | |{{:techtalk:ref:genmsr:75_primary_adjuster_damage_1_by_jmmarks70.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:genmsr:75_primary_adjuster_damage_2_by_jmmarks70.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:genmsr:75_primary_adjuster_damage_3_by_jmmarks70.jpg?direct&230|}}| |
| - | One method of adjusting a tight primary chain: ((wedge of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1529681&highlight=stethoscope)) \\ | + | \\ |
| - | With the bike hot and running in neutral, loosen the nut, turn the adjuster in until it starts to whine, then back it off 1/4 turn. \\ | + | |
| - | Then ride it and make sure it's not whining any longer. \\ | + | |
| - | Sprocket Nut: \\ | + | * **Symptom: Rattling Noise**. \\ Conv90 submitted video of noise from the primary side: \\ |
| + | {{:video:buell_noise_video_by_conv90.mp4|}} | ||
| - | **Symptom**: \\ | + | * **Symptom: Rattling Noise**. \\ The tensioner shoe can be loose and rock side to side enough to sound like a lifter problem. It will rock fore and aft into the primary cover. \\ From the cam side of the bike, it'll sound like it's a lifter bouncing around. It's a slow intermittent hollow banging noise. It may only make noise at idle when the chain is least tight. \\ |
| - | Rattling noise. \\ | + | * **Condition: Loose Primary Chain Adjuster Shoe**. \\ Below is a short video by Conv90 of the XLFORUM showing the hollow noise created. |
| - | **Condition**: \\ | + | {{:video:primary_chain_adjuster_shoe_noise_by_conv90.mp4|}} |
| - | Loose sprocket nut. ((JstColli of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=3399889&highlight=stethoscope#post3399889)) \\ | + | |
| - | The sprocket nut can work loose and the noise is from the rotor eating itself up on the crank splines. \\ | + | \\ |
| - | If it's bad enough, it can end up breaking the end of the crankshaft off. \\ | + | |
| - | **Symptom**: \\ | + | * **Symptom: An extra and constant noise inside of the primary case**. \\ An extra and constant noise inside of the primary case (even / after adjustment of the primary chain adjuster). ((Spor-T-1 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=29865)) \\ **Condition: Loose compensator nut / flywheel sprocket shaft nut**. \\ Once the sprocket on that shaft gets loose enough, it will chew the end of your fly wheel. ((dodgenbullets of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=29865)) If this is the case your motor must come out and the cases split to fix it. \\ |
| - | Squeaking noise seemingly from the area of the generator. ((jmmarks70 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1786179&highlight=motor+mount+noise&page=2)) \\ | + | |
| - | + | ||
| - | **Condition**: \\ | + | |
| - | Loose / damaged chain adjuster. \\ | + | |
| - | + | ||
| - | | 75 primary adjuster damage. ((photos by jmmarks70 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1786179&highlight=motor+mount+noise)) ||| | + | |
| - | |{{:techtalk:ref:genmsr:75_primary_adjuster_damage_1_by_jmmarks70.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:genmsr:75_primary_adjuster_damage_2_by_jmmarks70.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:genmsr:75_primary_adjuster_damage_3_by_jmmarks70.jpg?direct&230|}}| | + | |
| - | + | ||
| - | + | ||
| - | **Symptom**: \\ | + | |
| - | An extra and constant noise inside of the primary case (even / after adjustment of the primary chain adjuster). ((Spor-T-1 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=29865)) \\ | + | |
| - | + | ||
| - | **Condition**: \\ | + | |
| - | Loose compensator nut / flywheel sprocket shaft nut. \\ | + | |
| - | Once the sprocket on that shaft gets loose enough, it will chew the end of your fly wheel. ((dodgenbullets of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=29865)) \\ | + | |
| - | If this is the case your motor must come out and the cases split to fix it. \\ | + | |
| ====== Transmission / Clutch ====== | ====== Transmission / Clutch ====== | ||
