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techtalk:ref:oil06 [2019/05/16 18:59] hippysmack [Return (scavenge) Gerotors] |
techtalk:ref:oil06 [2022/06/23 21:47] hippysmack [Return hole in the "duck bill"] |
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====== REF: Oiling & Lubrication ====== | ====== REF: Oiling & Lubrication ====== | ||
- | ====== Comparing the 77 Style Oil Pump to Newer Pumps ====== | + | ====== 77-Present Sportster Oil Pump Comparisons ====== |
Links to more oil pump pics and dims in the Sportsterpedia; \\ | Links to more oil pump pics and dims in the Sportsterpedia; \\ | ||
[[techtalk:ih:oil03#oil_pump|77-85 Oil Pump]] in the IH section of the Sportsterpedia. \\ | [[techtalk:ih:oil03#oil_pump|77-85 Oil Pump]] in the IH section of the Sportsterpedia. \\ | ||
[[techtalk:evo:oil03|86-Present Oil Pump]] in the Evo section of the Sportsterpedia. \\ | [[techtalk:evo:oil03|86-Present Oil Pump]] in the Evo section of the Sportsterpedia. \\ | ||
- | ===== Comparing 77-85, 98-06 and 07 and up Pumps ===== | + | |
+ | ====== Return to Feed Ratios ====== | ||
+ | 77-85 feed gerotors have the smallest volume and smallest of the gerotor pumps used on Sportsters. \\ | ||
+ | 86-06 feed gerotors have the same volume. \\ | ||
+ | 77-97 return gerotors have the same volume. \\ | ||
+ | 98-06 return gerotors have the same volume. \\ | ||
+ | 77-06 gerotors all have the same teeth profile (bodies changed OD but volume per height stayed the same). \\ | ||
+ | 06-present are the tallest and also have a different teeth profile. \\ | ||
+ | |||
+ | * **77-85 return to feed ratio app 2.78:1** | ||
+ | * Return Height: .500", Feed Height: .180" | ||
+ | * **86-90 return to feed ratio app 1.89:1** | ||
+ | * Return Height: .500", Feed Height: .265" | ||
+ | * **91-97 return to feed ratio app 1.89:1** | ||
+ | * Return Height: .500", Feed Height: .265" | ||
+ | * **98-06 return to feed ratio app 2.64:1** | ||
+ | * Return Height: .700", Feed Height: .265" | ||
+ | * **07-up return to feed ratio app 4.25:1** | ||
+ | * Return Height: .850", Feed Height: .200" | ||
+ | |||
+ | ====== Return hole in the "duck bill" ====== | ||
+ | The size of the crankcase oil inlet hole inside the duck bill changed a couple times. \\ | ||
+ | 1977-1990 return inlet hole ID = 0.250" \\ | ||
+ | 1991-1997 return inlet hole ID = 0.280" \\ | ||
+ | 1998-Present return inlet hole ID = 0.350" \\ | ||
+ | |||
+ | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:1977-present_sportster_oil_pump_return_inlet_id_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&400|}} \\ | ||
+ | |||
+ | ====== Comparing 77-85, 98-06 and 07 and up Pumps ======= | ||
With a 98 style gasket on the 79 pump, the gasket fits nice and snug as it should be. \\ | With a 98 style gasket on the 79 pump, the gasket fits nice and snug as it should be. \\ | ||
There were 3 different fitting changes to the 77-81 pump but the body stayed the same. \\ | There were 3 different fitting changes to the 77-81 pump but the body stayed the same. \\ | ||
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|{{:techtalk:ref:oil:sportster_gerotor_oil_pump_comparison_8_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:oil:sportster_gerotor_oil_pump_comparison_9_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ref:oil:sportster_gerotor_oil_pump_comparison_8_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:oil:sportster_gerotor_oil_pump_comparison_9_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
- | ===== 77-85 and 86-90 Oil Pump Comparison ===== | + | ====== 77-85 and 86-90 Oil Pump Comparison ====== |
The 79-85 pump was bolted to and outlined on the aluminum sheet. \\ | The 79-85 pump was bolted to and outlined on the aluminum sheet. \\ | ||
The 86-80 pump was then bolted to the sheet clearly within the mark of the 79-85 pump. \\ | The 86-80 pump was then bolted to the sheet clearly within the mark of the 79-85 pump. \\ | ||
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|{{:techtalk:ref:oil:77_and_86_oil_pump_comparison_2_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:oil:77_and_86_oil_pump_comparison_7_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:oil:77_and_86_oil_pump_comparison_8_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ref:oil:77_and_86_oil_pump_comparison_2_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:oil:77_and_86_oil_pump_comparison_7_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:oil:77_and_86_oil_pump_comparison_8_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
- | ==== Feed Gerotors ==== | + | ===== Feed Gerotors ===== |
**77-85**: \\ | **77-85**: \\ | ||
77-85 feed gerotors are the same size with the exception of the L83 removal of the chamfer on the outside of the set. \\ | 77-85 feed gerotors are the same size with the exception of the L83 removal of the chamfer on the outside of the set. \\ | ||
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|{{:techtalk:ref:oil:feed_gerotor_evolution_77-85.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:oil:feed_gerotor_evolution_86-06.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:oil:feed_gerotor_evolution_07-up.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ref:oil:feed_gerotor_evolution_77-85.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:oil:feed_gerotor_evolution_86-06.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:oil:feed_gerotor_evolution_07-up.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
- | ==== Return (scavenge) Gerotors ==== | + | ===== Return (scavenge) Gerotors ===== |
**77-90**: \\ | **77-90**: \\ | ||
77-85 return gerotors are the same size with the exception of the L83 removal of the chamfer on the outside of the set. \\ | 77-85 return gerotors are the same size with the exception of the L83 removal of the chamfer on the outside of the set. \\ | ||
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|{{:techtalk:ref:oil:return_gerotor_evolution_5_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:oil:return_gerotor_evolution_6_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:oil:return_gerotor_evolution_7_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ref:oil:return_gerotor_evolution_5_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:oil:return_gerotor_evolution_6_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:oil:return_gerotor_evolution_7_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
- | ====== Mixing Parts ====== | + | |
- | ===== 86-90 Pump Cover on 77-85 Pump Body ===== | + | ===== Oil Pump Covers ===== |
- | Feed georotors wrong size: | + | **86-90 cover on 77-85 pump body**: \\ |
- | |77-85 feed gerotor fit in 86 cover. ((photo by Hippysmack))| | + | Installing an 86 cover on the 77-85 oil pump creates problems. \\ |
- | |{{:techtalk:ref:oil:77-85_feed_gerotors_in_86-90_oil_pump_cover_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | + | 77-90 oil pump covers look identical from the outside. \\ |
+ | The only visual difference on the outside is that the 77-85 pump has an oil pressure switch on the front and the 86-90 pump has a hose fitting there. \\ | ||
+ | Take the fittings off the ends and it looks as if they would be interchangeable. \\ | ||
+ | The factory oil fittings are different which can give clues to the year model used on. \\ | ||
+ | But these fittings do get changed from time to time from different owners. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Looking on the inside, there is a feed hole in the arm of the 77-85 pumps that doesn't exist in the later pump covers. \\ | ||
+ | This is the oil feed hole to the engine on 77-85 engines. \\ | ||
+ | 86-90 oil pumps route the feed out to an external oil filter and back into a separate cavity in the pump body to feed the engine. \\ | ||
+ | (so the feed hole in the arm is not needed in the cover on 86-90 pumps) \\ | ||
+ | 86-90 engines are fed oil from a passage in the pump body instead of the cover. \\ | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | | L83 pump body and 86-90 cover. ((photo by jlv of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5749850#post5749850)) | 77-85 covers w/ feed hole in arm. ((photo by Hippysmack)) | 86-90 covers without the feed hole in the arm. ((photo by Hippysmack)) | | ||
+ | |{{:techtalk:ref:oil:77-85_oil_pump_with_86-90_cover_by_jlv.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_pump_cover_3_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:evo:oil:86-90_oil_pump_cover_3_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
+ | |||
+ | **Feed gerotor surface depth change**: \\ | ||
+ | Modding the 86-90 cover by drilling the hole out in the arm won't be an adequate fix to adapt it for use on a 77-85 pump body. \\ | ||
+ | The scavenge gerotors are the same size in 77-90 pumps. \\ | ||
+ | However, the feed gerotors got bigger in 86. \\ | ||
+ | The depth of the cover got bigger to accommodate this change. \\ | ||
+ | |||
+ | If you have the 77-85 body and drill the hole in the 86 cover, it won't work properly and it'll wet sump from the jump. \\ | ||
+ | That'll leave the clearances too loose inside using the 85 pump body. \\ | ||
+ | |This is how the feed gerotors should sit in the the \\ proper cover. Spec: .001"-.011" above the lip. ((photo by Hippysmack))|This is how the 77-85 feed gerotors fit in \\ an 86-90 cover. ((photo by Hippysmack))| | ||
+ | |{{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_pump_feed_gerotor-checking_tolerance_by_8_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:oil:77-85_feed_gerotors_in_86-90_oil_pump_cover_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
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