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techtalk:ref:priclutch01 [2020/05/27 05:30] hippysmack [Broken Rotor / Clutch Basket Magnets] |
techtalk:ref:priclutch01 [2024/01/19 23:26] (current) hippysmack |
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| ====== REF: Primary Drive & Clutch ====== | ====== REF: Primary Drive & Clutch ====== | ||
| ====== Broken Rotor / Clutch Basket Magnets ====== | ====== Broken Rotor / Clutch Basket Magnets ====== | ||
| - | If you look on the clutch of your late Ironhead to present Evo you'll see a warning. It says "Caution No Sharp Blows". ((Vanmor of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1666986&highlight=stator+repair)) | ||
| - | |This is what can happen when you use a hammer on the clutch basket / engine sprocket rotor \\ (respectively to your year model) ((photo by Vanmor of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1666986&highlight=stator+repair))|| | + | If you look on the rotor of your late Ironhead to present Evo you'll see a warning. It says "Caution No Sharp Blows". ((Vanmor of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/frame-mount-evo-sportster-talk-1986-2003-models/155506-replacement-clutch-rotor-magnets?t=1666986&highlight=stator+repair)) |
| + | |||
| + | |This is what can happen when you use a hammer on the clutch basket / engine sprocket rotor \\ (respectively to your year model) ((photo by Vanmor of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/frame-mount-evo-sportster-talk-1986-2003-models/155506-replacement-clutch-rotor-magnets?t=1666986&highlight=stator+repair))|| | ||
| |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:broken_stator_magnets_1_by_vanmor.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:broken_stator_magnets_2_by_vanmor.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:broken_stator_magnets_1_by_vanmor.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:broken_stator_magnets_2_by_vanmor.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| - | This was done on purpose as an illustration. "I started slow and then went a little harder until I heard a couple of the magnets drop out". \\ As you can see, two of the magnets broke and then fell out. The surface of the magnet that was glued stayed in contact with the rotor. \\ Actually the two broken magnets shattered. They're ceramic and will break like glass.((Vanmor of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1666986&highlight=stator+repair)) | + | This was done on purpose as an illustration. "I started slow and then went a little harder until I heard a couple of the magnets drop out". \\ As you can see, two of the magnets broke and then fell out. The surface of the magnet that was glued stayed in contact with the rotor. \\ Actually the two broken magnets shattered. They're ceramic and will break like glass.((Vanmor of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/frame-mount-evo-sportster-talk-1986-2003-models/155506-replacement-clutch-rotor-magnets?t=1666986&highlight=stator+repair)) |
| ===== Sourcing Replacement Magnets ===== | ===== Sourcing Replacement Magnets ===== | ||
| - | * There doesn't seem to be a source for new replacement magnets. ((Vanmor of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1666986&highlight=stator+repair)) | + | * There doesn't seem to be a source for new replacement magnets. ((Vanmor of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/frame-mount-evo-sportster-talk-1986-2003-models/155506-replacement-clutch-rotor-magnets?t=1666986&highlight=stator+repair)) |
| * You can check with your local HD to see if they may have a used take-off with donor magnets in the service dept. (that they haven't thrown out yet). | * You can check with your local HD to see if they may have a used take-off with donor magnets in the service dept. (that they haven't thrown out yet). | ||
| - | * A good source for replacement donor magnets is a Big Twin six magnet rotor (preferably used), add your best source of heat to remove its magnets. ((Vanmor of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1666986&highlight=stator+repair&page=2)) | + | * A good source for replacement donor magnets is a Big Twin six magnet rotor (preferably used), add your best source of heat to remove its magnets. ((Vanmor of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/frame-mount-evo-sportster-talk-1986-2003-models/155506-replacement-clutch-rotor-magnets/page2?t=1666986&highlight=stator+repair&page=2)) |
| * DO NOT use a hammer to knock them loose. You might get lucky but it's likely the magnets will break before letting go of the hub. | * DO NOT use a hammer to knock them loose. You might get lucky but it's likely the magnets will break before letting go of the hub. | ||
| - | ===== Repairing the Magnets in the Hub ===== | + | ===== All Models - Replacing the Magnets ===== |
| - | ==== Removing the Magnets ==== | + | |
| + | ==== Removing the Magnets from the Rotor ==== | ||
| **Caution.... Use eye and skin protection before attempting to remove them.** | **Caution.... Use eye and skin protection before attempting to remove them.** | ||
| Line 22: | Line 24: | ||
| **Using Solvent**: \\ | **Using Solvent**: \\ | ||
| - | * The MoCo uses a very thin adhesive that may be resistant to paint stripper. ((Vanmor of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1666986&highlight=stator+repair)) | + | * The MoCo uses a very thin adhesive that may be resistant to paint stripper. ((Vanmor of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/frame-mount-evo-sportster-talk-1986-2003-models/155506-replacement-clutch-rotor-magnets?t=1666986&highlight=stator+repair)) |
| * The idea, however, is that it will soften the epoxy holding the magnets on. | * The idea, however, is that it will soften the epoxy holding the magnets on. | ||
| * It may take several applications, but eventually it will soften the adhesive enough to allow the application of heat. | * It may take several applications, but eventually it will soften the adhesive enough to allow the application of heat. | ||
| Line 36: | Line 38: | ||
| |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:removing_rotor_magnets_3_by_vanmor.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:removing_rotor_magnets_3_by_vanmor.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| - | | It takes awhile but eventually the heat does it's job. ((photo by Vanmor of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1666986&highlight=stator+repair)) | | + | | It takes awhile but eventually the heat does it's job. ((photo by Vanmor of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/frame-mount-evo-sportster-talk-1986-2003-models/155506-replacement-clutch-rotor-magnets?t=1666986&highlight=stator+repair)) | |
| - | * A heat gun has been used successfully on the outside of the hub ((juzyHD of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2000061&highlight=splines+hub)) adjacent to each magnet removed. | + | * A heat gun has been used successfully on the outside of the hub ((juzyHD of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/187218-late-84-magnet-removal-and-attachment?t=2000061&highlight=splines+hub)) adjacent to each magnet removed. |
| - | * A torch (propane or whatever) should work better and faster. However, don't get it too hot or the magnet and the properties thereof could be ruined. \\ Use a big screwdriver or small pry bar to LIGHTLY PRY the magnets loose or you will break them. TAKE YOUR TIME !!! ((Vanmor of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1666986&highlight=stator+repair)) | + | * A torch (propane or whatever) should work better and faster. However, don't get it too hot or the magnet and the properties thereof could be ruined. \\ Use a big screwdriver or small pry bar to LIGHTLY PRY the magnets loose or you will break them. TAKE YOUR TIME !!! ((Vanmor of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/frame-mount-evo-sportster-talk-1986-2003-models/155506-replacement-clutch-rotor-magnets?t=1666986&highlight=stator+repair)) |
| - | * You can put it in an oven at 400*, you want to heat it evenly as spot heating can cause distortion. The magnets are brittle so be careful. ((bustert of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2000061&highlight=splines+hub&page=2)) | + | * You can put it in an oven at 400*, you want to heat it evenly as spot heating can cause distortion. The magnets are brittle so be careful. ((bustert of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/187218-late-84-magnet-removal-and-attachment/page2?t=2000061&highlight=splines+hub&page=2)) |
| - | * This one was set inside a charcoal grill with charcoal laid in a circle around it. The best way to do this is wait until the rotor has turned color completely. \\ Then work quickly but carefully. Once the rotor reaches temperature, it begines to turn color rather quickly.((Vanmor of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1666986&highlight=stator+repair)) \\ (Note: Best to place the charcoal all the way around the rotor so as not to warp it with different temps applied.) | + | * This one was set inside a charcoal grill with charcoal laid in a circle around it. The best way to do this is wait until the rotor has turned color completely. \\ Then work quickly but carefully. Once the rotor reaches temperature, it begines to turn color rather quickly.((Vanmor of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/frame-mount-evo-sportster-talk-1986-2003-models/155506-replacement-clutch-rotor-magnets?t=1666986&highlight=stator+repair)) \\ (Note: Best to place the charcoal all the way around the rotor so as not to warp it with different temps applied.) |
| |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:removing_rotor_magnets_1_by_vanmor.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:removing_rotor_magnets_2_by_vanmor.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:removing_rotor_magnets_1_by_vanmor.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:removing_rotor_magnets_2_by_vanmor.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| - | | Removing magnets in the charcoal grill ((photos by Vanmor of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1666986&highlight=stator+repair)) || | + | | Removing magnets in the charcoal grill ((photos by Vanmor of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/frame-mount-evo-sportster-talk-1986-2003-models/155506-replacement-clutch-rotor-magnets?t=1666986&highlight=stator+repair)) || |
| ==== Installing the Magnets ==== | ==== Installing the Magnets ==== | ||
| Line 51: | Line 53: | ||
| * **Epoxy that has been used successfully** to re-install the magnets: | * **Epoxy that has been used successfully** to re-install the magnets: | ||
| * [[https://www.jbweld.com/collections/epoxy-adhesives/products/j-b-weld-twin-tube|JB Weld]] Tensile strength of 3960 PSI, withstands temps up to 550ºF when fully cured. | * [[https://www.jbweld.com/collections/epoxy-adhesives/products/j-b-weld-twin-tube|JB Weld]] Tensile strength of 3960 PSI, withstands temps up to 550ºF when fully cured. | ||
| - | * [[https://retail.usa.sika.com/en/products/adhesives|Sikaflex Industrial Urethane]] ((ironside of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2000061&highlight=splines+hub)) | + | * [[https://retail.usa.sika.com/en/products/adhesives|Sikaflex Industrial Urethane]] ((ironside of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/187218-late-84-magnet-removal-and-attachment?t=2000061&highlight=splines+hub)) |
| * **Spacing them out**. The magnets need to be evenly spaced apart so as not to throw off the balance of the hub: | * **Spacing them out**. The magnets need to be evenly spaced apart so as not to throw off the balance of the hub: | ||
| - | * Install them without epoxy, they will all be holding by themselves and against each other if their positions are right. Now calculate the total gap between the two open ends (where there are no magnets), divide the gap by the number of magnets and that will give you the shim (or spacer) thickness. Cut spacers that length and shim them all apart as you glue them in. ((rejeanprimeau of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1958787)) | + | * Install them without epoxy, they will all be holding by themselves and against each other if their positions are right. Now calculate the total gap between the two open ends (where there are no magnets), divide the gap by the number of magnets and that will give you the shim (or spacer) thickness. Cut spacers that length and shim them all apart as you glue them in. ((rejeanprimeau of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-electrical/sportster-motorcycle-electrical-and-ignition/181860-alternator-magnets-polarization?t=1958787)) |
| * Or, [[techtalk:ref:tools139|here is a template you can make]] to evenly space the magnets when re-installing them. | * Or, [[techtalk:ref:tools139|here is a template you can make]] to evenly space the magnets when re-installing them. | ||
| - | * **Fill the gaps between the magnets with epoxy** and they probably won't move again. ((juzyHD of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2000061&highlight=splines+hub&page=2)) | + | * **Fill the gaps between the magnets with epoxy** and they probably won't move again. ((juzyHD of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/187218-late-84-magnet-removal-and-attachment/page2?t=2000061&highlight=splines+hub&page=2)) |
| * **Get some clamps to hold those powerful little buggers in while gluing them** and watch out for pinched fingers. ((bustert | * **Get some clamps to hold those powerful little buggers in while gluing them** and watch out for pinched fingers. ((bustert | ||
| - | of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1958787)) | + | of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-electrical/sportster-motorcycle-electrical-and-ignition/181860-alternator-magnets-polarization?t=1958787)) |
| * **Make sure the magnets are polarized correctly** (N/S/N/S/N/S) __before__ you glue them in. | * **Make sure the magnets are polarized correctly** (N/S/N/S/N/S) __before__ you glue them in. | ||
| - | * Magnets placed N/S attract each other and N/N or S/S placement pushes the magnets apart. ((rejeanprimeau of the XLFOEUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1958787)) | + | * Magnets placed N/S attract each other and N/N or S/S placement pushes the magnets apart. ((rejeanprimeau of the XLFOEUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-electrical/sportster-motorcycle-electrical-and-ignition/181860-alternator-magnets-polarization?t=1958787)) |
| - | * If one or more are turned wrong, you'll have a bad charging. ((juzyHD of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2000061&highlight=splines+hub)) | + | * If one or more are turned wrong, you'll have a bad charging. ((juzyHD of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/187218-late-84-magnet-removal-and-attachment?t=2000061&highlight=splines+hub)) |
| |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:magnet_pole_directions_by_juzyhd.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:magnet_pole_directions_by_juzyhd.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| - | | Correct magnet pole positioning ((Drawing by juzyHD of the XLFORUM (cropped by Hippysmack) http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1958787)) | | + | | Correct magnet pole positioning ((Drawing by juzyHD of the XLFORUM (cropped by Hippysmack) https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-electrical/sportster-motorcycle-electrical-and-ignition/181860-alternator-magnets-polarization?t=1958787))| |
| - | ==== (L84-90 models) ==== | + | ===== L84-90 Models ===== |
| + | * Most of the above procedure applies to these models as well. In this case, the rotor is part of the Clutch assembly, therefore, the magnets are inside that housing. | ||
| + | * On a used clutch housing with good magnets, take all the magnets out and re-glue them with epoxy (Loctite 3455 used in the pics below). | ||
| - | * With a used clutch housing with good magnets, take all the magnets out first and re-glue them with epoxy (Loctite 3455 used in the pics below). | + | |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_1_by_harton.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by harton of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/156834-late-84-85-clutch-shell-magnets-fix?t=1678442))|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_2_by_harton.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by harton of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/156834-late-84-85-clutch-shell-magnets-fix?t=1678442))| |
| - | |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_1_by_harton.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by harton of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1678442))|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_2_by_harton.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by harton of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1678442))| | + | \\ |
| ====== The Dreaded Clutch Basket Wobble (L84-90 models) ====== | ====== The Dreaded Clutch Basket Wobble (L84-90 models) ====== | ||
| - | + | * This is a known issue beginning either from a worn out basket or trap door bearing or possibly a worn inner basket spline ((juzyHD of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/193302-clutch-shell-basket?t=2069308&highlight=clutch+shell)) or maybe a combination of them: | |
| - | * This is a known issue beginning either from a worn out basket or trap door bearing or possibly a worn inner basket spline ((juzyHD of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2069308&highlight=clutch+shell)) or maybe a combination of them: | + | |
| * The late 84-90 sportster has the stator mounted behind the clutch shell, the problem is the stator needs a tight 0.060 clearance to operate right. | * The late 84-90 sportster has the stator mounted behind the clutch shell, the problem is the stator needs a tight 0.060 clearance to operate right. | ||
| - | * A clutch shell wobbles even when the bearing in the trap door is good, but once it gets worn, it's enough for the magnets to start contacting the stator. Then it's catastrophic for the charging system. ((dave76 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=594005&highlight=speed+clutch+magnets&page=1)) | + | * A clutch shell wobbles even when the bearing in the trap door is good, but once it gets worn, it's enough for the magnets to start contacting the stator. Then it's catastrophic for the charging system. ((dave76 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/frame-mount-evo-sportster-talk-1986-2003-models/80949-ah-crap-stupid-rotor-magnets?t=594005&highlight=speed+clutch+magnets&page=1)) |
| |{{:techtalk:evo:elec:86-90_stator_replacement_4_by_johniegordon.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:evo:elec:86-90_stator_replacement_8_by_johniegordon.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:broken_clutch_shell_magnets_by_dave76.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:evo:elec:86-90_stator_replacement_4_by_johniegordon.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:evo:elec:86-90_stator_replacement_8_by_johniegordon.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:broken_clutch_shell_magnets_by_dave76.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| - | | Stator destroyed by magnet contact ((((photos by JohnieGordon of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1581211)) | Clutch shell magnet wear ((photo by JohnieGordon of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1581211)) | Broken clutch shell magnets ((photo by dave76 of the XLFORUM)) | | + | | Stator destroyed by magnet contact ((((photos by JohnieGordon of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-electrical/sportster-motorcycle-electrical-and-ignition/145672-1986-1990-stator-replacement?t=1581211)) | Clutch shell magnet wear ((photo by JohnieGordon of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-electrical/sportster-motorcycle-electrical-and-ignition/145672-1986-1990-stator-replacement?t=1581211)) | Broken clutch shell magnets ((photo by dave76 of the XLFORUM)) | |
| - | * The grooves in the splines of the clutch basket are a common result of wear. If they get too deep, they can prevent the clutch plates from moving back and forth to engage / disengage. If they're that bad, the only choice is replace the clutch basket. ((XLXR of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=168162&page=16)) | + | * The grooves in the splines of the clutch basket are a common result of wear. If they get too deep, they can prevent the clutch plates from moving back and forth to engage / disengage. If they're that bad, the only choice is replace the clutch basket. ((XLXR of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/46244-clutch-adjustment-under-derby-cover/page16?t=168162&page=16)) |
| * If the grooves are minor, just ignore them. On dirt bikes, I have used a straight file to smooth out the high spots, but you have do go all the way around the basket and file down each spline the same amount. This is because you want all the splines on the clutch basket to contact all the tabs on the clutch plate at the same time. If you file down just one spline, none of the other splines / tabs will make contact, and that one will wear very fast. | * If the grooves are minor, just ignore them. On dirt bikes, I have used a straight file to smooth out the high spots, but you have do go all the way around the basket and file down each spline the same amount. This is because you want all the splines on the clutch basket to contact all the tabs on the clutch plate at the same time. If you file down just one spline, none of the other splines / tabs will make contact, and that one will wear very fast. | ||
| * This is something that is a bit of a pain to do, and at best it can get a bit more mileage out of the clutch basket. At worst, it can lead to total clutch failure. | * This is something that is a bit of a pain to do, and at best it can get a bit more mileage out of the clutch basket. At worst, it can lead to total clutch failure. | ||
| ===== Parts Repair ===== | ===== Parts Repair ===== | ||
| - | |||
| * To replace your exiting hub you'll have to go with an aftermarket as in the V-Twin version since the OEM clutch shell has been obsoleted for parts order by the MoCo. | * To replace your exiting hub you'll have to go with an aftermarket as in the V-Twin version since the OEM clutch shell has been obsoleted for parts order by the MoCo. | ||
| * To repair your existing hub / rotor and since the magnets are not available for purchase, one idea is to buy a used clutch shell on Ebay. | * To repair your existing hub / rotor and since the magnets are not available for purchase, one idea is to buy a used clutch shell on Ebay. | ||
| * You might go even cheaper if you can find one with a few bad magnets to remove the good ones and glue into your existing hub. | * You might go even cheaper if you can find one with a few bad magnets to remove the good ones and glue into your existing hub. | ||
| * Then get a new stator and trap door bearing. | * Then get a new stator and trap door bearing. | ||
| - | * However, you haven't solved the problem. It will happen again. ((dave76 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=594005&highlight=speed+clutch+magnets&page=1)) | + | * However, you haven't solved the problem. It will happen again. ((dave76 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/frame-mount-evo-sportster-talk-1986-2003-models/80949-ah-crap-stupid-rotor-magnets?t=594005&highlight=speed+clutch+magnets&page=1)) |
| ===== A Solid Repair Solution for L84-90 Clutch Hub ===== | ===== A Solid Repair Solution for L84-90 Clutch Hub ===== | ||
| - | |||
| * **Replace the trap door** with a Zipper's billet aluminum door with a double row bearing. | * **Replace the trap door** with a Zipper's billet aluminum door with a double row bearing. | ||
| * The Zipper's trap door (817-840 ) can be used as a heavy duty stock (L84-90) replacement or as a rigid backbone for drag racing and high output 4 speed alternator-equipped Sportsters. \\ Includes a heavy-duty, double-row mainshaft bearing for extra strength and stability for the clutch and shafts. \\ The double-row bearing greatly reduces the clutch shell rocking that occurs under power - which leads to damaged alternator rotor magnets and stators when contact between the two is made. It is a direct bolt-on replacement and includes mounting hardware and countershaft bearing. Made in USA. ((http://www.zippersperformance.com/zippers-4spd-billet-door.html)) | * The Zipper's trap door (817-840 ) can be used as a heavy duty stock (L84-90) replacement or as a rigid backbone for drag racing and high output 4 speed alternator-equipped Sportsters. \\ Includes a heavy-duty, double-row mainshaft bearing for extra strength and stability for the clutch and shafts. \\ The double-row bearing greatly reduces the clutch shell rocking that occurs under power - which leads to damaged alternator rotor magnets and stators when contact between the two is made. It is a direct bolt-on replacement and includes mounting hardware and countershaft bearing. Made in USA. ((http://www.zippersperformance.com/zippers-4spd-billet-door.html)) | ||
| Line 100: | Line 101: | ||
| |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:factory_4-speed_trapdoor_1_by_dave76.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:factory_4-speed_trapdoor_2_by_dave76.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:factory_4-speed_trapdoor_1_by_dave76.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:factory_4-speed_trapdoor_2_by_dave76.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| - | | Factory 4-speed trapdoor ((photo by dave76 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=629939&page=2)) || | + | | Factory 4-speed trapdoor ((photo by dave76 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/frame-mount-evo-sportster-talk-1986-2003-models/83813-what-are-the-differences-between-86-90-and-later-91-sportster-engines/page2?t=629939&page=2)) || |
| |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:zippers_billet_trapdoor_by_1_dave76.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:zippers_billet_trapdoor_by_2_dave76.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:zippers_billet_trapdoor_by_1_dave76.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:zippers_billet_trapdoor_by_2_dave76.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| - | | Zipper's Billet Trapdoor w / double row bearings. ((photos by dave76 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=629939&page=2)) || | + | | Zipper's Billet Trapdoor w / double row bearings. ((photos by dave76 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/frame-mount-evo-sportster-talk-1986-2003-models/83813-what-are-the-differences-between-86-90-and-later-91-sportster-engines/page2?t=629939&page=2)) || |
| * **Replace your factory clutch basket** with a V-Twin clutch shell with special encapsulated magnets (18-8324 ), new stator, and regulator. | * **Replace your factory clutch basket** with a V-Twin clutch shell with special encapsulated magnets (18-8324 ), new stator, and regulator. | ||
| Line 111: | Line 112: | ||
| |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:v-twin_sealed_magnet_clutch_shell_by_dave76.jpg?direct&400|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:v-twin_sealed_magnet_clutch_shell_by_dave76.jpg?direct&400|}}| | ||
| - | | V-Twin Sealed Magnet Clutch Shell ((photo by dave76 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=629939&page=2)) | | + | | V-Twin Sealed Magnet Clutch Shell ((photo by dave76 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/frame-mount-evo-sportster-talk-1986-2003-models/83813-what-are-the-differences-between-86-90-and-later-91-sportster-engines/page2?t=629939&page=2)) | |
| * **And finally, you can fabricate** [[techtalk:ref:priclutch01#the_harton_fix_late_84-90_rotor_clutch_shell_magnets|"The Harton Fix"]] below (which takes some machining). It can be done on a new or existing hub shaft to add an extra bearing on the shaft and alleviate the pressure exerted on the non-bearing end. | * **And finally, you can fabricate** [[techtalk:ref:priclutch01#the_harton_fix_late_84-90_rotor_clutch_shell_magnets|"The Harton Fix"]] below (which takes some machining). It can be done on a new or existing hub shaft to add an extra bearing on the shaft and alleviate the pressure exerted on the non-bearing end. | ||
| + | |||
| ====== "The Harton Fix" (Late 84-90 Rotor / Clutch Shell Magnets) ====== | ====== "The Harton Fix" (Late 84-90 Rotor / Clutch Shell Magnets) ====== | ||
| - | **Or, "How to fix the dreaded clutch basket wobble**" ((Article and concept by harton of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1678442)) ((This article combined by Hippysmack)) \\ | + | **Or, "How to fix the dreaded clutch basket wobble**" ((Article and concept by harton of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/156834-late-84-85-clutch-shell-magnets-fix?t=1678442)) ((This article combined by Hippysmack)) \\ |
| This is a fix for the famous clutch shell wobble breaking magnets & stator issues on the late 84-85 ironhead and 86-90 evo engines without going to aftermarket products. The V-twin clutch and the zippers trapdoor are nice parts but I don´t think that is where the problem started. The wobble on the clutch gear splines is what I think is the biggest problem to fix in most cases. If the clutch shell can´t wobble, the magnets will not hit the stator and the problem is fixed. \\ | This is a fix for the famous clutch shell wobble breaking magnets & stator issues on the late 84-85 ironhead and 86-90 evo engines without going to aftermarket products. The V-twin clutch and the zippers trapdoor are nice parts but I don´t think that is where the problem started. The wobble on the clutch gear splines is what I think is the biggest problem to fix in most cases. If the clutch shell can´t wobble, the magnets will not hit the stator and the problem is fixed. \\ | ||
| Line 124: | Line 126: | ||
| ===== Mount an extra bearing at the back of the clutch ===== | ===== Mount an extra bearing at the back of the clutch ===== | ||
| The bearing used in this example is a 6908-2RS ( 40 x 62 x 12mm ) to support the hub and fixed to the gear at the front of the clutch. \\ This way the clutch will not wobble on the splines. | The bearing used in this example is a 6908-2RS ( 40 x 62 x 12mm ) to support the hub and fixed to the gear at the front of the clutch. \\ This way the clutch will not wobble on the splines. | ||
| - | * You'll need to fabricate a sleeve to hold the bearing. The sleeve is for an extra bearing which is mounted to the 'neck' of the clutch hub and it helps when you have worn hub splines. If your splines are good, you can still made that improvement and it will probably help to keep the splines good. ((juzyHD of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2000061&highlight=splines+hub&page=3)) | + | * You'll need to fabricate a sleeve to hold the bearing. The sleeve is for an extra bearing which is mounted to the 'neck' of the clutch hub and it helps when you have worn hub splines. If your splines are good, you can still made that improvement and it will probably help to keep the splines good. ((juzyHD of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/187218-late-84-magnet-removal-and-attachment/page3?t=2000061&highlight=splines+hub&page=3)) |
| - | + | ||
| - | + | ||
| - | |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_3_by_harton.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by harton of the XLFORUM (http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1678442))|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_4_by_harton.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by harton of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1678442))| | + | |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_3_by_harton.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by harton of the XLFORUM (https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/156834-late-84-85-clutch-shell-magnets-fix?t=1678442))|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_4_by_harton.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by harton of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/156834-late-84-85-clutch-shell-magnets-fix?t=1678442))| |
| ==== Calculating the sleeve ==== | ==== Calculating the sleeve ==== | ||
| - | These dims are for reference comparison only. ((norseXL of the XLFORUM ((http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1946880&highlight=clutch+basket+wobble&page=2)) | + | These dims are for reference comparison only. ((norseXL of the XLFORUM ((https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/180878-4-speed-clutch-support-bearing/page2?t=1946880&highlight=clutch+basket+wobble&page=2)) |
| - Find distance A from the groove for the lock-ring to the start of the hole in the trap-door. | - Find distance A from the groove for the lock-ring to the start of the hole in the trap-door. | ||
| Line 145: | Line 145: | ||
| |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:dims_for_harton_fix_-4_by_norsexl.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:dims_for_harton_fix_-5_by_norsexl.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:dims_for_harton_fix_-6_by_norsexl.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:dims_for_harton_fix_-4_by_norsexl.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:dims_for_harton_fix_-5_by_norsexl.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:dims_for_harton_fix_-6_by_norsexl.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| - | | App. dims for the bearing race (however, you must do the measuring for Your application). These were taken for an aftermarket hub. \\ These are the updated pics by norseXL ((Dims provided by and with norseXL's experience while upgrading to this fix http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1946880&highlight=clutch+basket+wobble&page=21)) ||| | + | | App. dims for the bearing race (however, you must do the measuring for Your application). These were taken for an aftermarket hub. \\ These are the updated pics by norseXL ((Dims provided by and with norseXL's experience while upgrading to this fix https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/180878-4-speed-clutch-support-bearing/page21?t=1946880&highlight=clutch+basket+wobble&page=21)) ||| |
| ===== Turn down the hub to accept the bearing ===== | ===== Turn down the hub to accept the bearing ===== | ||
| - | + | |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_6_by_harton.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by harton of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1678442))|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_1_by_norsexl.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by norseXL of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/180878-4-speed-clutch-support-bearing?t=1946880&highlight=clutch+basket+wobble))| | |
| - | |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_6_by_harton.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by harton of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1678442))|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_1_by_norsexl.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by norseXL of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1946880&highlight=clutch+basket+wobble))| | + | |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_7_by_harton.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by harton of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/156834-late-84-85-clutch-shell-magnets-fix?t=1678442))|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_2_by_norsexl.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by norseXL of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/180878-4-speed-clutch-support-bearing?t=1946880&highlight=clutch+basket+wobble))| |
| - | + | ||
| - | |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_7_by_harton.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by harton of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1678442))|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_2_by_norsexl.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by norseXL of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1946880&highlight=clutch+basket+wobble))| | + | |
| ===== Then assemble everything ===== | ===== Then assemble everything ===== | ||
| + | |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_9_by_harton.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by harton of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/156834-late-84-85-clutch-shell-magnets-fix?t=1678442))|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_10_by_harton.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by harton of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/156834-late-84-85-clutch-shell-magnets-fix?t=1678442))| | ||
| - | + | |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_8_by_harton.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by harton of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/156834-late-84-85-clutch-shell-magnets-fix?t=1678442))|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_5_by_harton.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by harton of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/156834-late-84-85-clutch-shell-magnets-fix?t=1678442))| | |
| - | |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_9_by_harton.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by harton of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1678442))|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_10_by_harton.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by harton of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1678442))| | + | |
| - | + | ||
| - | |{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_8_by_harton.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by harton of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1678442))|{{:techtalk:ref:priclutch:clutch_shell_magnet_fix_5_by_harton.jpg?direct&300|}} ((Photo by harton of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1678442))| | + | |
