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| techtalk:ref:svcproc11i [2021/08/27 19:45] – [Using a crimped flat washer to replace the OEM retainer clip] hippysmack | techtalk:ref:svcproc11i [2024/01/21 20:52] (current) – hippysmack | ||
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| **The OEM shaft groove depth, width and the shaft OD on the end are all made specifically to specs for the flexible retainer clip**. \\ | **The OEM shaft groove depth, width and the shaft OD on the end are all made specifically to specs for the flexible retainer clip**. \\ | ||
| - | The groove depth is cut significantly deep to match the specs for the flex clip (app .085" | + | The groove depth is cut significantly deep to match the specs for the flex clip as well as the length of the groove |
| So a regular circlip to replace the OEM one will require a washer behind it to take up that space between the circlip and the detent plate. \\ | So a regular circlip to replace the OEM one will require a washer behind it to take up that space between the circlip and the detent plate. \\ | ||
| The groove width is cut wide to allow for the clip to shoulder against the detent plate. \\ | The groove width is cut wide to allow for the clip to shoulder against the detent plate. \\ | ||
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| The OEM retainer ring is officially called an (External Bowed Locking Ring). \\ | The OEM retainer ring is officially called an (External Bowed Locking Ring). \\ | ||
| - | | OEM 91-03 detent plate and retainer ring ((photo by xLoneRiderx of the XLFORUM | + | | OEM 91-03 detent plate and retainer ring ((photo by xLoneRiderx of the XLFORUM |
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| ====== Sizing information for a retainer ring alternative ====== | ====== Sizing information for a retainer ring alternative ====== | ||
| - | |||
| There are some considerations when trying to spec an alternate retainer for the detent plate. \\ | There are some considerations when trying to spec an alternate retainer for the detent plate. \\ | ||
| - Any attempt to tighten the detent plate against the pins can result in transferring the load to and breaking the shift drum shaft end. \\ Normally the load is " | - Any attempt to tighten the detent plate against the pins can result in transferring the load to and breaking the shift drum shaft end. \\ Normally the load is " | ||
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| - If you want to use front installed retainer rings, the shaft diameter tolerance range needs to include the shift shaft end OD. \\ | - If you want to use front installed retainer rings, the shaft diameter tolerance range needs to include the shift shaft end OD. \\ | ||
| * This is important for round wire rings, spiral rings and C-section rings. These can not be installed from the side. \\ If the OD of the shaft end is too big for the retainer, you'll over-stress or break the ring trying to open it large enough to go over the shaft. | * This is important for round wire rings, spiral rings and C-section rings. These can not be installed from the side. \\ If the OD of the shaft end is too big for the retainer, you'll over-stress or break the ring trying to open it large enough to go over the shaft. | ||
| + | |||
| + | ====== Alternate retainer Ideas ====== | ||
| * **Here are a few ideas for alternative retainers. Use these at your own risk as results will vary. See further explanations of these ideas down the page**. | * **Here are a few ideas for alternative retainers. Use these at your own risk as results will vary. See further explanations of these ideas down the page**. | ||
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| * Retainer installed from the front: | * Retainer installed from the front: | ||
| * 5/16" crimped flat washer (one side cut across face, slid over the shaft and compressed to the groove w/ 5/16" or 8mm flat washer behind it) \\ | * 5/16" crimped flat washer (one side cut across face, slid over the shaft and compressed to the groove w/ 5/16" or 8mm flat washer behind it) \\ | ||
| + | * Threading the end of the shaft for a nut: | ||
| + | * The shaft that is pressed into the center of the shift drum can be resized and threaded with a die to accept a 5mm nut. \\ | ||
| - | ====== Using a C-clip or E-clip to replace the OEM retainer clip ====== | + | ===== Using a C-clip or E-clip to replace the OEM retainer clip ===== |
| - | * Many have suggested to replace the OEM flex clip with a C or E clip with a thin washer behind it. \\ That has been known to work but sizing is most important and there are no C or E clips that spec'd for the shifter shaft groove. \\ You won't find many (unless one offs) that are in the correct size specs for the shaft (again cut for the flex clip specs). \\ **Note**: Pre-sizing (crimping down to size) a retainer clip is a good way to cause it to fail. \\ To pre-size a clip, you must crimp it vertically (squeezing it sideways only allows it to spread out on install). | + | * Many have suggested to replace the OEM flex clip with a C or E clip with a thin washer behind it. \\ Just keep in mind, this WILL transfer side load to the tip of the shaft. \\ That has been known to work but sizing is most important and there are no C or E clips that spec'd for the shifter shaft groove. \\ You won't find many (unless one offs) that are in the correct size specs for the shaft (again cut for the flex clip specs). \\ **Note**: Pre-sizing (crimping down to size) a retainer clip is a good way to cause it to fail. \\ To pre-size a clip, you must crimp it vertically (squeezing it sideways only allows it to spread out on install). |
| * __A 8.00mm E-clip is the closest to spec for the shift drum groove__. \\ Ring ID (5.26mm relaxed) - Groove OD (5.79mm), Ring OD (11.75mm) - Shaft Dia (3.08mm) \\ So it will have a light interference fit and plenty of height to hold a washer against the detent plate. \\ An 8mm E-clip is designed for a (6.0mm) groove to make it as tight against the groove as it was designed to be. \\ So you might consider " | * __A 8.00mm E-clip is the closest to spec for the shift drum groove__. \\ Ring ID (5.26mm relaxed) - Groove OD (5.79mm), Ring OD (11.75mm) - Shaft Dia (3.08mm) \\ So it will have a light interference fit and plenty of height to hold a washer against the detent plate. \\ An 8mm E-clip is designed for a (6.0mm) groove to make it as tight against the groove as it was designed to be. \\ So you might consider " | ||
| * The closest match (SAE) E-clips are not close enough. \\ A 5/16" E-clip is the closest over-match for the shaft groove OD (E-clip .250", shaft groove .228" | * The closest match (SAE) E-clips are not close enough. \\ A 5/16" E-clip is the closest over-match for the shaft groove OD (E-clip .250", shaft groove .228" | ||
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| * __The second possible problem using an E-clip is the open end itself__. \\ When you add the washer and install the E-clip, you will probably have a tight fit now with the detent plate (no wobble). \\ But if the shift pawl or shift drum pin(s) thrust hard enough against the detent, that puts more pressure against the E-clip. \\ Also, if a shift drum gets in the condition to move, the pawl will push it hard into only one side of the detent plate/ | * __The second possible problem using an E-clip is the open end itself__. \\ When you add the washer and install the E-clip, you will probably have a tight fit now with the detent plate (no wobble). \\ But if the shift pawl or shift drum pin(s) thrust hard enough against the detent, that puts more pressure against the E-clip. \\ Also, if a shift drum gets in the condition to move, the pawl will push it hard into only one side of the detent plate/ | ||
| - | | Do Not Use More Than 1 E-clip ((photo by Rv7garage of the XLFORUM | + | | Do Not Use More Than 1 E-clip ((photo by Rv7garage of the XLFORUM |
| |{{: | |{{: | ||
| - | ====== Using a crimped flat washer to replace the OEM retainer clip ====== | + | ===== Using a crimped flat washer to replace the OEM retainer clip ===== |
| * You can install a thin flat washer and " | * You can install a thin flat washer and " | ||
| - | * There is a down side to using this type of retainer. \\ This method works but will be a bear if you have to remove it. ((bustert of the XLFORUM | + | * There is a down side to using this type of retainer. \\ This method works but will be a bear if you have to remove it. ((bustert of the XLFORUM |
| - | | Crimped flat washer mod ((photo by bustert of the XLFORUM | + | | Crimped flat washer mod ((photo by bustert of the XLFORUM |
| |{{: | |{{: | ||
| - | ====== Threading the end of the shift drum for a nut ====== | + | ===== Threading the end of the shift drum for a nut ===== |
| + | **Warning**: | ||
| + | If you change your mind later or the shaft/ | ||
| It is possible to grind the shaft end (where the retainer ring groove is) down to the correct size to cut threads with a die for a nut. \\ | It is possible to grind the shaft end (where the retainer ring groove is) down to the correct size to cut threads with a die for a nut. \\ | ||
| Just keep in mind, this WILL transfer side load onto the shaft itself and in the shear plane of the shaft threads. \\ | Just keep in mind, this WILL transfer side load onto the shaft itself and in the shear plane of the shaft threads. \\ | ||
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| * M6 threads would require the shaft to be sized to (5.90 mm) or (.2322" | * M6 threads would require the shaft to be sized to (5.90 mm) or (.2322" | ||
| * 1/ | * 1/ | ||
| + | * **Sizing the shaft**. | ||
| + | * The front portion of the collar that the detent plate sits on and the tip of the shaft will need to be cut / ground to the groove OD. \\ The then the entire of the shaft from tip to detent plate will need to be turned down to the proper (pre tap) size for the die. \\ In this case, to use a 5mm nut, the shaft will need to be turned down to (4.92 mm) or (.1937" | ||
| + | * **Cutting the threads with a die**. \\ This has to be done right and straight. If you have any convictions about cutting the threads, don't cut them yourself. \\ You can always take the shift drum to a local machine shop and let them size the shaft and cut the threads. \\ | ||
| + | * For a 5mm thread, you'll need a 5mm die and some cutting oil. Make a 30° chamfer on the end of the shaft to help start the die straight. \\ The shaft needs to be straight also or you'll end up cutting crooked threads along a crooked shaft (reason for the lathe work). \\ Start the die with the chamfered end toward the shaft and check for straightness as you turn. \\ Use 1/4 or 1/2 turns, back it off, clean, lube and repeat until you get to the end of the shaft cut. \\ Remove the die, clean, lube, turn it around to the non-chamfered end, install and finish cutting the threads to the butt of the shaft cut. \\ Remove the die, clean the threads and you're done. | ||
| - | | Shift drum shaft dims on 1998 Sportster ((photo by Hippysmack of the XLFORUM | + | | Shift drum shaft dims on 1998 Sportster ((photo by Hippysmack of the XLFORUM |
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| - | ====== Certain type retainer clips are useless for this application ====== | + | ===== Certain type retainer clips are useless for this application ===== |
| * **A Round Wire Snap Ring will not work**: | * **A Round Wire Snap Ring will not work**: | ||
| * You can find a (.221" relaxed ID) Round Wire Snap Ring ( [[https:// | * You can find a (.221" relaxed ID) Round Wire Snap Ring ( [[https:// | ||
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| * Forget about the groove size or shaft diameter of an SAE or Metric circlip, neither internal or external. \\ No standard circlip will be tall enough to rise above the shaft (groove height too big) and will not keep a washer or the detent plate from sliding off the drum shaft.\\ | * Forget about the groove size or shaft diameter of an SAE or Metric circlip, neither internal or external. \\ No standard circlip will be tall enough to rise above the shaft (groove height too big) and will not keep a washer or the detent plate from sliding off the drum shaft.\\ | ||
| \\ | \\ | ||
| - | ====== Build your own retainer | + | ===== Build your own retainer ===== |
| Click on any drawing to enlarge. \\ | Click on any drawing to enlarge. \\ | ||
| - | Below are some patterns for a custom retainer for the detent plate by xLoneRiderx for those with a creative mind and good machinist abilities. ((drawings by xLoneRiderx of the XLFORUM | + | Below are some patterns for a custom retainer for the detent plate by xLoneRiderx for those with a creative mind and good machinist abilities. ((drawings by xLoneRiderx of the XLFORUM |
| Retainers made from a standard steel washer 6 mm ID, 30 mm OD and 1.5 mm thick. \\ | Retainers made from a standard steel washer 6 mm ID, 30 mm OD and 1.5 mm thick. \\ | ||
| The retainer is assembled to the detent plate through one or two M3 x 5 mm button head screws (in magenta color) below. \\ | The retainer is assembled to the detent plate through one or two M3 x 5 mm button head screws (in magenta color) below. \\ | ||
