Differences

This shows you the differences between two versions of the page.

--- techtalk:ih:oil01 [2019/06/14 03:40]
hippysmack [Oil Lines to the Rockers]
+++ techtalk:ih:oil01 [2019/06/21 04:40]
hippysmack
@@ Line 60: / Line 60: @@
 The filter mount is mounted on the lower left front engine mount. \\
 This has also been a popular practice on earlier bikes. \\
-|  Filter installed on an 80 XLH motor mount. ((photo by hscic of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2053271&highlight=motor+mount+oil+filter&page=45))  |
+|82-E84 motor / filter mount. ((photo by sifty of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1592463&page=22))|  Filter installed on an 80 XLH motor mount. ((photo by hscic of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2053271&highlight=motor+mount+oil+filter&page=45))  |
-|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:80_xlh_left_side_by_hscic.jpg?direct&300|}}|
+|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:82-e84_front_left_motor_mount_by_sifty.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:80_xlh_left_side_by_hscic.jpg?direct&300|}}|
 **----- L1984-1985 Models -----**
@@ Line 355: / Line 355: @@
 It opens solely from the pressure generated from the oil pump with the assistance of the check valve to hold some of that pressure in the pump. \\
 So, it is possible but not likely to have a stuck closed check valve with no oil light on. \\
-====== Crankcase Ventilation ======
-====== (or Foo Foo Valve) ======
-===== Ironhead Engine breather 101 Through 1985 =====
-WHAT IS IT?
-  * The slang term "FooFoo" comes from the annoying sound that it makes when it gets clogged up with oil residue. ((IronMick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1332902&page=3))
-  * The engine breather, or crankcase vent as Harley sometimes calls it, is to allow air out of the lower crankcase, but not in, as the pistons rise and fall. Without some kind of controlled breather, the lower end would become a 1,000cc air compressor, robbing the engine of several horsepower. Old time tuners like Jerry Branch, Tom Sifton and Dick O’Brien paid much attention to the engine breather because they knew it could give them extra horsepower if set up right.
-  *  One thing not to do with an engine breather is to simply plumb a hose to the crankcase without some kind of one-way valve or timed breather valve. It is commonly done, but it wastes power and is not good for your engine.
-WHERE IS IT?
-  * **Pre-1977**
-      * There is a timed breather valve built into the oil pump drive, which vents crankcase pressure into the cam timing chest. A six-inch metal tube hanging down from the timing cover near the generator drive, at the 6 o’clock position vents that controlled pressure to atmosphere. A metal disc on the end of the generator drive gear centrifugally separates oil from the air as it is discharged overboard.
-  * **1977-78 only** ((Hopper)) ((HD Service Bulletin #M-708 dated December 1, 1976))
-      * The timed breather on the oil pump drive was dropped. A new design breather valve (24633-77) was used in late 1977 model XL/XLCH/XLT engines produced around October 15, 1976. All 1000cc engine numbers (3A, 4A or 2G) 27940H7 and above had the new breather valve. It serves the same function as the gear driven breather valve used on 1976 and earlier engines to maintain a partial vacuum in the engine and prevent oil leakage. Due to it's improvements in doing so, it was suggested to be retrofitted to all 1977 XL & XLCH engines.
-      * The one-way valve is contained in a fitting which screws into the gear-case cover below the generator mounting boss. The existing breather outlet pipe screws into the bottom of the new fitting. The outlet pipe because of its lower position must be directed outside (instead of inside) the frame tube. The rubber hose at the pipe outlet must no longer be used.
-      * Because of the higher vacuum existing in the engines equipped with this new breather valve, a higher pressure oil pump check valve (26435-76A) was installed in L1977 oil pumps at the same time to provide higher oil pressure at the oil pressure light switch.
-      * The new valve opens at 4-6 PSI whereas the old valve opens at 2-4 PSI. Pumps having the new valve are identified with a green dot. The existing 0-ring (26433- 77) was used for both new and old valves.
-      *  An external non-return valve was plumbed into the vent tube sticking down from the timing cover at the generator drive. This allows air out, but not in. It is sometimes referred to as the foo-foo valve. Searching the XLFORUM for __foo foo valve__ or __foo-foo__ will lead to extensive discussions of this mystical device.
-|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-78_ext_foo_foo_valve_1_by_hopper.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-78_ext_foo_foo_valve_2_by_hopper.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-78_ext_foo_foo_valve_3_by_hopper.jpg?direct&300|}}|
-|  77-78 Crankcase Ventilation Valve ((photo by Hopper of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1960632))  |
-  * **1979-E1982**.
-      * The external foo-foo valve and the six-inch metal vent tube at the front of the timing cover were done away with. Instead, a one-way foo-foo valve was built inside the timing cover. A rubber breather hose then ran from the generator drive area of the timing cover, at the 9 o’clock position. It connected to the stock air filter so that any oil mist was fed back through the engine, making the EPA pollutocrats more happier than they were with the idea of engine oil spraying out into the atmosphere. The generator had a (1-5/8" O.D.) oil separator washer on the end of the armature shaft. ((HD Service Bulletin #M-848 dated April 9, 1982))
-  * **L1982-1985**
-      * The internal crankcase breather valve was redesigned to incorporate a rubber umbrella valve attached to the base plate along with a larger diameter (1-3/4" O.D.) oil separator washer on the generator armature. ((HD Service Bulletin #M-848 dated April 9, 1982))
-Many of these bikes with custom air filters simply run that hose down to the bottom of the frame and let the oil mist blow out in the time honored manner. \\
-That is fine too, as long as you are not an EPA man. \\
-Just to add to the knowledge base, here is a pic of IronMick's internal foo-foo in his post-79 model on the left. \\
-You can see the 9 oclock fitting and the 6 oclock fitting both enter the same cavity. \\
-The pic on the right is of an 85 cam cover with the foofoo valve (baffle tube) off to the left of it. \\
-{{techtalk:ih:oil:ihcamcoverxlf.jpg?direct&250|}} ((photo by ryder rick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=518948&page=2)) {{:techtalk:ih:oil:85_cam_cover_1_by_billeuze.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by billeuze of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1103082))
-ALTERNATIVES
-  * There is a product called a Krankvent that can be plumbed into the lower, 6 o’clock position as an alternative to a stock foo-foo valve. But they are not cheap.
-  * Automotive PCV valves are not really made to handle the revs or air volumes of a Harley. While a car engine is bigger, it has one piston coming down while one goes up, so not much change in internal crankcase volume, so not much breathing to be done. A Harley has two pistons and rods on one crankpin, so is one giant air compressor.
-  * Some guys have found that plumbing in a 77-78 foo-foo valve on the later model engines improves breathing.
-LINKS- Discussion on foo-foo valves and engine breathers pics etc here:
-[[http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=213630]]
-There are other threads but this pretty much covers it all anyhow. Pretty simple but seems to cause repeated headaches for such a pesky little thing. ((Hopper from the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=518948&highlight=wet+sumping))
 ====== Top End Oiling ======
@@ Line 416: / Line 368: @@
 Remove both oil lines, and check the rubbers on both ends of each. \\
+|  Oil line sleeves. ((photos by sc72 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1704463))  ||
+|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:83_model_oil_line_sleeves_1_by_sc72.jpg?direct&250|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:83_model_oil_line_sleeves_1_by_sc72.jpg?direct&250|}}|
 ===== Rocker Box =====
 The feed to the rockers is not a large diameter passage and not a lot of oil goes to the rocker gear. ((Ferrous Head of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=753175&highlight=split+rocker+box)) \\
@@ Line 422: / Line 376: @@
 ====== Bottom End Oiling ======
+====== Transfer Valve (76 and earlier) ======
+The foregoing by Dr Dick ((http://xlforum.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3886388&postcount=40))
+The transfer valve is staked into position. ((Ferrous Head of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=581947&page=6)) \\
+Look very close around the edges and you'll see two spots that have been lightly punched. \\
+If you clean the metal away from there with a sharp instrument it will come out fairly easily. \\
+|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:transfer_valve_by_fourcams.jpg?direct&250|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:transfer_valve_1_by_ironheadjunkie.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:transfer_valve_2_by_ironheadjunkie.jpg?direct&300|}}|
+|  Transfer valve ((photo by FourCams of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=581947))  |  Transfer valve location ((photos by ironheadjunkie http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1495746))  ||
+The purpose of the transfer valve is to keep your garage floor clean. \\
+It's an oil control device to control the oil in order to keep it in your bike. \\
+There is so much speculation on this subject that sometimes the myth becomes the reality.
+  * The transfer valve is a part of a bigger system. \\ A system that we often break down into its components. \\ Then we deal with the (target component) often losing sight of the big picture. \\ It's our nature as mechanical guys. \\ Pin point the problem and then bring the hammers of Hell to bear on it. \\ If we can let go of that instinct for a moment this will make perfect sense. \\ So you want to think big picture here.
+  * **The Transfer Valve**:
+  - **Fact**: If you blow thru the valve it only allows flow from primary to engine.
+  - **Fiction**: That means its a one way check valve. Bad assumption. \\ It allows flow one way only when pressure is different one side of valve to other. See #3.
+  - **Fact**: When taken apart carefully as not to bend the triangular reed we find no spring that 'checks' the valve when pressure differential is absent. \\ So it's allowed to 'leak' in state of equilibrium.
+  - **Fiction**: There's something missing from this valve. \\ That's why its not checking and allowing leaking oil into my primary as I found when I left the primary cover off an saw the trail of oil from the valve. \\ **If you dismiss the assumptions** and stick with what we can prove this truth emerges: \\ **The transfer valve is a one way feed when engine is running but not when engine is static**. \\ (then it's relaxed and oil leaks from motor thru it)
+  - **Fact**: Oil is leaking out of your valve when the primary cover is off. \\ (it's leaking when the primary cover is on too)
+  - **Fiction**: There's only supposed to be a small amount of oil in the motor so there's something else wrong too. What could that be? \\ Aha, it's got to be the check valve in the oil pump leaking. \\ (This is the spot you go off course chasing ghosts. Because your motor is not running, oil is leaking into it before it even gets to the check valve).
+  * You are told to inspect the check valve in response to any noticeable change that increases oil exiting thru the breather tube. \\ Because a check that leaks will shorten the time it takes to fill the motor enough to puke.
+  * Even a perfectly sealed check can't stop oil that's getting in thru a different path.
+  * If we slow down now and think, we get to this: \\ In order for the pump check to leak, oil has to get to the tank side of pump check. \\ In order to get there its got to sneak past gear clearance in pump (which it obviously does). \\ But this is not the only place this errant oil can go:
+|On the way to the check, it finds clearance here, where \\ the breather valve fits thru the upper oil pump housing.|Where it leaks into the space between the breather \\ sleeve and housing, exiting at the first place it can \\ (the bottom of slot in the upper housing).|Now, it's filling the breather passage that leads to the \\ crank case. This passage is located lower than \\ the floor of the cam chest.|
+|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:transfer_valve_explained_1_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:transfer_valve_explained_2_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:transfer_valve_explained_3_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}}|
+  * So, oil is now filling the crankcase and not the cam chest. \\ The factory made sure that it happened like this. \\ They wanted this unchecked oil to stay out of the cam chest so that your bike is less likely to puke oil.
+  * They didn't want the oil to just sit in the case sump either because it would just end up in the cam case soon after the bike was started.
+  * They wanted to somehow 'transfer' it to a reservoir allowing it to re-enter the engine in a controlled volume that the return pump could handle without being drowned.
+|Look at the position of the valve compared to the \\ breather passage. It's about even.|Go back to the 1st case pic. Note, the floor of the cam \\ chest is about even to the bottom of the pinion race. \\ Now look at the position of breather passage in \\ regards to floor of cam chest. Chest floor is higher, \\ breather passage lower. Crap flows downstream.|
+|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:transfer_valve_explained_4_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:transfer_valve_explained_5_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}}|
+  * So oil flowing unchecked into the pump from the oil supply line leaks clear thru engine into primary before it can start to fill the cam chest. \\ On the primary side though, there is plenty of room to fill with the errant oil.
+  * The transfer valve 'transfers' "pre pump check" oil leakage out of the motor and into the primary. \\ Where it re-enters the engine on startup in a controlled volume that the return pump could handle without being drowned.
+  * In other words, it 'transfers' it back to engine when bike starts.
+  * This is the improvement refined from the 52-54 siphon tube that used the same valve guts.
+  * It does makes perfect sense don't it?
+  * Now, given some thought you will see why the valves aren't used on the racers.
+  * The '77 style oil system did away with the unchecked supply leakage. (so there is no reason to 'transfer' what isn't there).
+  * **It's name is absolutely 100% correct: It's the transfer valve**.
+  * The factory 'got it right' with this part.
+  * **Keep an eye on the big picture**.
 ====== Wet Sumping ======

Trace:

Differences

Navigation

Search

Toolbox