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techtalk:ref:engmech01h [2019/08/16 13:26] hippysmack [Clearancing] |
techtalk:ref:engmech01h [2024/01/14 18:19] (current) hippysmack |
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| ====== REF: Engine Mechanicals - Sub-01H ====== | ====== REF: Engine Mechanicals - Sub-01H ====== | ||
| - | ====== Clearancing for and Test Fitting Cams ====== | + | ====== Clearancing For and Test Fitting Cams ====== |
| ====== Clearancing ====== | ====== Clearancing ====== | ||
| + | It's important to state that none of these mods are mandatory unless there is a clearance problem with upgraded parts. \\ | ||
| + | The MoCo has already done all the clearancing needed OEM parts. \\ | ||
| + | Upgrades such as bigger cams and valves sometimes comes with more clearancing needed. \\ | ||
| + | Below are some examples of clearance issues to check before / during assembly. \\ | ||
| - | |The underside of the lifter bosses often need a little \\ grinding to keep the cam lobes from contacting. ((photo by aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=668404#post668404))|Big cam lobes also may try to hit the pinion race, \\ which protrudes from the case slightly. It sticks out \\ farther on 2000-up motors. ((photo by aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=668404#post668404))|If the lobe is contacting the pinion race, it's better to \\ modify the lobe than the race (this is a Red Shift 567). \\ Notice the chamfer on the lobe below. Modifying that \\ race is difficult and risky. People have done it and \\ trashed the bearing in the process. ((photo by aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=668404#post668404))| | + | ==== Cam Lobes ==== |
| + | |The underside of the lifter bosses often need a little \\ grinding to keep the cam lobes from contacting. ((photo by aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-bottom-end/30069-se-575-install-vs-se-536-install#post662315))|Big cam lobes also may try to hit the pinion race, \\ which protrudes from the case slightly. It sticks out \\ farther on 2000-up motors. ((photo by aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-bottom-end/30069-se-575-install-vs-se-536-install#post662315))|If the lobe is contacting the pinion race, it's better to \\ modify the lobe than the race (this is a Red Shift 567). \\ Notice the chamfer on the lobe below. Modifying that \\ race is difficult and risky. People have done it and \\ trashed the bearing in the process. ((photo by aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-bottom-end/30069-se-575-install-vs-se-536-install#post662315))| | ||
| |{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:clearancing_the_engine_for_bigger_cams_1_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:clearancing_the_engine_for_bigger_cams_2_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:clearancing_the_engine_for_bigger_cams_3_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:clearancing_the_engine_for_bigger_cams_1_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:clearancing_the_engine_for_bigger_cams_2_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:clearancing_the_engine_for_bigger_cams_3_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| - | Another thing to check is tappet pin clearance. ((aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=668404#post668404)) \\ | + | An example of chamfering the cam lobes was done by XLF member ~Grind~: ((https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-engine-conversions/134422-~grinds~-hammer-performance-1250-build?t=1448694)) \\ |
| + | {{:techtalk:ref:engmech:clearancing_cam_lobes_1_by_grind.jpg?direct&170|}} ((photo by ~Grind~ of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-engine-conversions/134422-~grinds~-hammer-performance-1250-build?t=1448694)) {{:techtalk:ref:engmech:clearancing_cam_lobes_2_by_grind.jpg?direct&170|}} ((photo by ~Grind~ of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-engine-conversions/134422-~grinds~-hammer-performance-1250-build?t=1448694)) {{:techtalk:ref:engmech:clearancing_cam_lobes_3_by_grind.jpg?direct&170|}} ((photo by ~Grind~ of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-engine-conversions/134422-~grinds~-hammer-performance-1250-build?t=1448694)) \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | {{:techtalk:ref:engmech:clearancing_cam_lobes_4_by_grind.jpg?direct&170|}} ((photo by ~Grind~ of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-engine-conversions/134422-~grinds~-hammer-performance-1250-build?t=1448694)) {{:techtalk:ref:engmech:clearancing_cam_lobes_5_by_grind.jpg?direct&170|}} ((photo by ~Grind~ of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-engine-conversions/134422-~grinds~-hammer-performance-1250-build?t=1448694)) {{:techtalk:ref:engmech:clearancing_cam_lobes_6_by_grind.jpg?direct&170|}} ((photo by ~Grind~ of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-engine-conversions/134422-~grinds~-hammer-performance-1250-build?t=1448694)) \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | ==== Lifters ==== | ||
| + | See also [[techtalk:evo:engmech02b|91-99 Lifter Pin Upgrade to 00-05 Lifter Pin Screws]] in the Sportsterpedia. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | Another thing to check is tappet pin clearance. ((aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-bottom-end/30069-se-575-install-vs-se-536-install#post662315)) \\ | ||
| The tappet pin rests against the flat on the tappet to keep the tappet from rotating in the bore. \\ | The tappet pin rests against the flat on the tappet to keep the tappet from rotating in the bore. \\ | ||
| But a bigger cam lobe lifts the tappet farther and on stock lifter, it can run out of travel. \\ | But a bigger cam lobe lifts the tappet farther and on stock lifter, it can run out of travel. \\ | ||
| Aftermarket lifters as shown below sometimes have longer flats. \\ | Aftermarket lifters as shown below sometimes have longer flats. \\ | ||
| - | |Stock vs Jims lifter tappet flat comparison. ((photo by aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=668404#post668404))| | + | |Stock vs Jims lifter tappet flat comparison. ((photo by aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-bottom-end/30069-se-575-install-vs-se-536-install#post662315))| |
| |{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:tappet_pin_comparison_2_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:tappet_pin_comparison_2_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| Line 23: | Line 36: | ||
| But sometimes with a small base circle cam the lifter will hit the cam bushing and thus not come all the way down. \\ | But sometimes with a small base circle cam the lifter will hit the cam bushing and thus not come all the way down. \\ | ||
| Easy to fix with some careful, slight grinding on the tappet on the underside of the axle support boss. \\ | Easy to fix with some careful, slight grinding on the tappet on the underside of the axle support boss. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | ==== Lifter Bore O.D. ==== | ||
| + | Big cam lobes can hit against the lifter bore O.D. \\ | ||
| + | Below, the area where the cam lobe spins around was clearance using a sanding drum. \\ | ||
| + | Four plugs were made to go in the camshaft bushings to keep from hitting them with the die grinder. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | {{:techtalk:ref:engmech:clearancing_lifter_bore_od_1_by_grind.jpg?direct&170|}} ((photo by ~Grind~ of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-engine-conversions/134422-~grinds~-hammer-performance-1250-build?t=1448694)) {{:techtalk:ref:engmech:clearancing_lifter_bore_od_2_by_grind.jpg?direct&170|}} ((photo by ~Grind~ of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-engine-conversions/134422-~grinds~-hammer-performance-1250-build?t=1448694)) {{:techtalk:ref:engmech:clearancing_lifter_bore_od_3_by_grind.jpg?direct&170|}} ((photo by ~Grind~ of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-engine-conversions/134422-~grinds~-hammer-performance-1250-build?t=1448694)) \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | ==== Rocker Box ==== | ||
| + | See more on [[techtalk:evo:engmech04b#rocker_box_rocker_arm_inspection_and_servicing|Clearancing and inspecting the Rocker Boxes]] in the Sportsterpedia. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | Check the clearance between the rocker arm and the underside of the rocker box cover. ((http://www.hammerperf.com/ttinstallkit.shtml#ClearanceBoxes)) \\ | ||
| + | With high lift cams, the rocker arm will often make contact with the rocker box top. \\ | ||
| + | You can use a little play-dough or modeling clay to check this clearance. \\ | ||
| + | Place it in the areas as in the pic below, install it and turn the engine over. \\ | ||
| + | Then remove the cover and see if anything got up intp the clay and where. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | Pull the tops and look for little marks on the inside. ((HAMMERSALES of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-bottom-end/116559-back-with-another-cam-question?t=1120605)) \\ | ||
| + | There shouldn't be any outside of factory casting marks. \\ | ||
| + | Rocker or pushrod contact will appear as marks that shouldn't be there. \\ | ||
| + | If any are found, a little strategically located grinding cleans it right up. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | Occasionally, 536 cams can cause the rocker arms to hit the rocker box tops (on the pushrod side). \\ | ||
| + | This is rare, but it can happen. \\ | ||
| + | Contact here should cause any damage, but it'll cause noise and leaks. ((aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-buell-motorcycle-racing/sportster-motorcycle-drag-racing/186625-lets-see-your-off-season-builds/page16#post4033634)) \\ | ||
| + | A lot of rocker box top leaks have been traced to this. | ||
| + | |||
| + | The most critical clearance in the rocker box is the clearance between the valve springs and all areas of the rocker box around it. ((http://www.hammerperf.com/ttinstallkit.shtml#ClearanceBoxes)) \\ | ||
| + | If the valve spring or retainer is allowed to touch the rocker box, it forces the valve to land sideways on the seat. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | | Rocker box top damage ((photo by aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-buell-motorcycle-racing/sportster-motorcycle-drag-racing/186625-lets-see-your-off-season-builds/page16#post4033634)) | Lower rocker damage from valve spring impact ((photo by ReddTigger of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-motor-top-end/157656-rocker-box-clearance-damage#post3347479)) | | ||
| + | |{{:techtalk:evo:engmech:rocker_box_clearance_3_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:evo:engmech:rocker_box_damage_3_by_reddtigger.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| + | |||
| + | ==== Rocker Arm Contact ==== | ||
| + | This condition was noticed when using S&S roller rocker arms and big cams. | ||
| + | But these areas can be checked while using stock or other rocker arms also. | ||
| + | Symptoms were a ticking noise on the top end on cold starts. 32) | ||
| + | The roller rockers were just grazing the rocker box assembly. | ||
| + | All 4 were just barely nicking the box. | ||
| + | It stopped when the bike got warm and stretched. | ||
| + | Clearance can be done with a die grinder or Dremil Tool. | ||
| + | |||
| + | |You can see where the contact occurs. ((photos by madnss of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-motor-top-end/165126-big-cams-s-s-roller-rockers?t=1776474&highlight=rocker+arm+bushings))|| | ||
| + | |{{:techtalk:evo:engmech:rocker_box_clearance_1_by_madnss.jpg?direct&200|}}|{{:techtalk:evo:engmech:rocker_box_clearance_2_by_madnss.jpg?direct&200|}}| | ||
| + | \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | **Here are some useful cam installation links**: \\ | ||
| + | From Hammer Performance: [[http://www.hammerperf.com/ttxlcaminstall.shtml]] \\ | ||
| + | From NRHS: [[http://www.nrhsperformance.com/tech_xlcaminstall.shtml]] \\ | ||
| ====== Test Fitting ====== | ====== Test Fitting ====== | ||
| - | Factory fitting of the cams is (or rather was) all about noise control. ((aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1840595)) \\ | + | Factory fitting of the cams is (or rather was) all about noise control. ((aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-bottom-end/171721-4-speed-cams-and-gear-case-mix-and-match?t=1840595)) \\ |
| By selecting the cam gears sized specifically for the engine they were going in, they could walk that fine line between noisy and too-tight. \\ | By selecting the cam gears sized specifically for the engine they were going in, they could walk that fine line between noisy and too-tight. \\ | ||
| The noise from the gears being a tad loose doesn't hurt anything. Too-tight however can cause localized tooth heating and failure. \\ | The noise from the gears being a tad loose doesn't hurt anything. Too-tight however can cause localized tooth heating and failure. \\ | ||
| Line 41: | Line 103: | ||
| Use a fair amount of assembly lube in the bushings and in the gear teeth. \\ | Use a fair amount of assembly lube in the bushings and in the gear teeth. \\ | ||
| Rotate them by hand and make sure they all spin freely without binding. \\ | Rotate them by hand and make sure they all spin freely without binding. \\ | ||
| + | Then, install all 4 cams in the cam cover and make sure they spin freely without binding. \\ | ||
| + | On 2003 and earlier motors, the cams can be rotated thru the nosecone ignition cover. 2004-up covers don't have this hole. \\ | ||
| + | However, several folks have ran 2000-2003 covers on 3004-up motors with no issues. ((NRHS Sales of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-engine-conversions/163447-spun-2-outer-bushing-again/page23?t=1756724&page=23)) \\ | ||
| - | Then, install all 4 cams in the cam cover and make sure they spin freely without binding. | + | | Test fitting cams in the cam cover ((photo by aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-engine-conversions/159973-conversion-redo/page3?t=1715966&page=3)) |Test fitting cams with the cam cover installed ((photo by aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-bottom-end/171721-4-speed-cams-and-gear-case-mix-and-match?t=1840595))| |
| - | + | |{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:test_fit_cams_in_cam_cover_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:test_fitting_cams_with_the_cam_cover_on_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |
| - | |{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:test_fit_cams_in_cam_cover_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&300|}}| | + | |
| - | | Test fitting cams in the cam cover ((photo by aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1715966&page=3)) | | + | |
| - | |{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:test_fitting_cams_with_the_cam_cover_on_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| - | |Test fitting cams with the cam cover installed ((photo by aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1840595))| | ||
