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techtalk:ref:engmech05 [2019/11/14 04:18] hippysmack [Vent Outlet Above vs Below the Head Vents] |
techtalk:ref:engmech05 [2020/03/02 20:28] hippysmack [Homemade Breather Valves] |
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* [[techtalk:ref:engmech05b|Converting to Filtered Vents out of the Air Cleaner]] | * [[techtalk:ref:engmech05b|Converting to Filtered Vents out of the Air Cleaner]] | ||
* [[techtalk:ref:engmech05c|Installing a Catch Can on the Breather Vent Line]] | * [[techtalk:ref:engmech05c|Installing a Catch Can on the Breather Vent Line]] | ||
- | * [[techtalk:ref:engmech05d|Converting Head Breathers to Cam Chest Breather]] | + | * [[techtalk:ref:engmech05d|Converting Head Breathers to Cam Chest Breather]] The Deimus Mod. |
* [[techtalk:ref:engmech05e|Adding a Vent Between the Oil Tank and the Cam Chest]] | * [[techtalk:ref:engmech05e|Adding a Vent Between the Oil Tank and the Cam Chest]] | ||
* [[techtalk:ref:engmech05f|Installing a Buell Rocker Box / Breather System on an Evo Sportster]] | * [[techtalk:ref:engmech05f|Installing a Buell Rocker Box / Breather System on an Evo Sportster]] | ||
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The filter adds resistance to the vent pressure coming out of the engine. \\ | The filter adds resistance to the vent pressure coming out of the engine. \\ | ||
This resistance can add to goop in the line / filter later. \\ | This resistance can add to goop in the line / filter later. \\ | ||
+ | It can also increase the vacuum inside the engine, which on a street bike, translates to weeping gaskets. \\ | ||
The filter does not keep debris from coming back into the engine. ((Folkie of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2087347)) \\ | The filter does not keep debris from coming back into the engine. ((Folkie of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2087347)) \\ | ||
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If your breather valves are in good order, nothing can get back through them. \\ | If your breather valves are in good order, nothing can get back through them. \\ | ||
- | The exception to this would be 91-03 engines with the middle rocker box umbrella valve with the tiny hole behind it. \\ | + | The exception to this would be small oil drainback hole that keeps oil from building up between the umbrella and the outlet. \\ |
The tiny holes next to (and slightly lower than) the umbrella valves are for draining the separated oil back into the rocker box. \\ | The tiny holes next to (and slightly lower than) the umbrella valves are for draining the separated oil back into the rocker box. \\ | ||
However, there isn't large enough suction back on the vent line to pull debris up and into the engine. \\ | However, there isn't large enough suction back on the vent line to pull debris up and into the engine. \\ | ||
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{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:clogged_breather_filter_by_60gunner.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by 60Gunner of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2074059&page=5)) {{:techtalk:ref:engmech:05_breather_mod_2_by_socal1200R_annotated_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by socal1200r of the XLFORUM, annotated by Hippysmack http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=30844)) | {{:techtalk:ref:engmech:clogged_breather_filter_by_60gunner.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by 60Gunner of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2074059&page=5)) {{:techtalk:ref:engmech:05_breather_mod_2_by_socal1200R_annotated_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by socal1200r of the XLFORUM, annotated by Hippysmack http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=30844)) | ||
- | ====== Pics of Aftermarket Breather Valves ====== | + | ====== Aftermarket Breather Valves ====== |
+ | |||
+ | ==== Sub Documents ==== | ||
+ | * [[techtalk:ref:engmech04a|Dissecting the Hayden KVP38 Crankcase Breather Valve]] | ||
+ | * [[techtalk:ref:engmech04b|Frequently Asked Questions About the Hayden Krankvent]] | ||
+ | |||
+ | There is a product called a Krankvent that can be plumbed into the lower, 6 o’clock position as an alternative to a stock foo-foo valve. ((Hopper of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=518948&highlight=cam+chest+breather)) \\ | ||
+ | But they are not cheap. Automotive PCV valves are not really made to handle the revs or air volumes of a Harley. \\ | ||
+ | While a car engine is bigger, it has one piston coming down while one goes up. \\ | ||
+ | So there's not much change in internal crankcase volume, so not as much breathing to be done. \\ | ||
+ | A Harley has two pistons and rods on one crankpin, so is one giant air compressor. \\ | ||
+ | |||
+ | Some guys have found that plumbing in a 77-78 foo-foo valve on the later model engines improves breathing. \\ | ||
+ | |||
+ | **Finding a better breather valve**: ((bunny32 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=15705&page=2)) \\ | ||
+ | The breather valves that work best on crankcase breathers have several features: \\ | ||
+ | * Low-inertia, i.e. they don't take more than a breath to open and close. | ||
+ | * They operate at low pressures ~1-30psi. | ||
+ | * They preferably have a floating type seal. | ||
+ | * They should be transparent, so you can see if they block up with blowby, solids, bugs etc. | ||
+ | * They should be easy to open and clean occasionally. | ||
+ | * They should push-fit into your breather line. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Metal diaphragm valves with e.g. springs are hopeless. \\ | ||
+ | Also avoid other types of valves designed to work at high pressures e.g. plumbing valves. \\ | ||
+ | Avoid car PCV valves as they are metering as well as non-return valves and are unsuitable. \\ | ||
+ | Automotive PCV valves are designed to let some air back in. \\ | ||
+ | The ball and spring valves will not be able to work fast enough to keep all the air out. \\ | ||
+ | When air is allowed to be drawn back into the engine, it creates a mass that must be compressed by the pistons on downstroke as it is being vented out. \\ | ||
+ | This robs some power and will cause the engine to work harder (creating more internal heat at higher RPM). ((Deimus of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=67658&page=18)) \\ | ||
+ | |||
+ | Aftermarket PCV's: ((electronbee of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=72099&highlight=reed+valve&page=10)) \\ | ||
+ | * Mercedes Benz P/N# 271-018-00-29 ~$13. | ||
+ | * Reed type PCV valve. Fast acting. Used for their C 230 Kompressor engine. | ||
+ | * Dims: 2-1/2" long by 1-1/8" with an I.D of 1/4". | ||
+ | * McCaster Carr P/N# 4610K17 ~$6. | ||
+ | * Umbrella valve. Vacuum check valve. | ||
+ | * Autozone P/N# PCV1174 (PV272) ~$5. | ||
+ | * Ball/spring based PCV valve. | ||
+ | * Makes a clicking noise during operation. | ||
- | |Doherty Power Vents with the line routed up then \\ down and attached to the bottom of the frame. ((photo by RIORoosen of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=146084&page=18))| | ||
- | |{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:breather_mod_by_rioroosen.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
|Hayden KVP38 breather valve, used with the \\ [[techtalk:ref:engmech05d|Deimus Mod]] (cam chest breather conversion). ((photo by 60Gunner of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5763918#post5763918))| Hayden breather opened up. ((photos by leucadiaGuit of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2004869 cropped by Hippysmack)) || | |Hayden KVP38 breather valve, used with the \\ [[techtalk:ref:engmech05d|Deimus Mod]] (cam chest breather conversion). ((photo by 60Gunner of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5763918#post5763918))| Hayden breather opened up. ((photos by leucadiaGuit of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2004869 cropped by Hippysmack)) || | ||
|{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:deimus_mod_8_by_60gunner.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:hayden_krankvent_3_by_leucadiaguit_-_cropped.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:hayden_krankvent_2_by_leucadiaguit_-_cropped.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:deimus_mod_8_by_60gunner.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:hayden_krankvent_3_by_leucadiaguit_-_cropped.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:hayden_krankvent_2_by_leucadiaguit_-_cropped.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
+ | |||
+ | |Doherty Power Vents with the line routed up then \\ down and attached to the bottom of the frame. ((photo by RIORoosen of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=146084&page=18))| Doherty Power Vent ((Photo by goblin_dust of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=72099&highlight=wet+sumping&page=23)) | | ||
+ | |{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:breather_mod_by_rioroosen.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:deimus_mod_2_by_goblin_dust.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | | Here is a 2-stroke reed valve. ((photo by norseXL of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1386341&highlight=reed)) | Reed Valve ((photo by Bluto of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5761290#post5761290)) | | ||
+ | |{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:reed_valve_by_norsexl.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:reed_valve_by_bluto.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
+ | |||
+ | | Mercedes Benz P/N# 271-018-00-29 ((photo by electronbee of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=72099&highlight=reed+valve&page=10)) | | ||
+ | |{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:mercedes_benz_pcv_valve_by_electronbee.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
+ | |||
+ | ====== Homemade Breather Valves ====== | ||
+ | This was made by norseXL of the XLFORUM ((http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5809352#post5809352)) \\ | ||
+ | |||
+ | A male threaded cap was made to screw into the female threaded body of the breather valve container as shown below. \\ | ||
+ | The center of the cap was drilled and tapped for a hollow (5.5mm) M10 bolt. \\ | ||
+ | The cam cover was also drilled and tapped for M10 threads. \\ | ||
+ | The brass adapter for the banjo also has M10 internal threads. \\ | ||
+ | |||
+ | The umbrella inside the body is the stock 91-03 umbrella. \\ | ||
+ | A 1.5mm hole was drilled into the bottom side of the body to drain any oil that makes it past the umbrella. \\ | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | {{:techtalk:ref:engmech:homemade_breather_vavle_1_by_norsexl.jpg?direct&300|}} {{:techtalk:ref:engmech:homemade_breather_vavle_3_by_norsexl.jpg?direct&300|}} \\ | ||
+ | |||
+ | {{:techtalk:ref:engmech:homemade_breather_vavle_4_by_norsexl.jpg?direct&300|}} {{:techtalk:ref:engmech:homemade_breather_vavle_5_by_norsexl.jpg?direct&300|}} {{:techtalk:ref:engmech:homemade_breather_vavle_2_by_norsexl.jpg?direct&300|}} \\ | ||
+ | |||