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techtalk:ref:engmech05 [2019/11/14 04:18]
hippysmack [Vent Outlet Above vs Below the Head Vents]
techtalk:ref:engmech05 [2020/03/02 20:30] (current)
hippysmack [Homemade Breather Valves]
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   * [[techtalk:​ref:​engmech05b|Converting to Filtered Vents out of the Air Cleaner]]   * [[techtalk:​ref:​engmech05b|Converting to Filtered Vents out of the Air Cleaner]]
   * [[techtalk:​ref:​engmech05c|Installing a Catch Can on the Breather Vent Line]]   * [[techtalk:​ref:​engmech05c|Installing a Catch Can on the Breather Vent Line]]
-  * [[techtalk:​ref:​engmech05d|Converting Head Breathers to Cam Chest Breather]]+  * [[techtalk:​ref:​engmech05d|Converting Head Breathers to Cam Chest Breather]] ​The Deimus Mod.
   * [[techtalk:​ref:​engmech05e|Adding a Vent Between the Oil Tank and the Cam Chest]]   * [[techtalk:​ref:​engmech05e|Adding a Vent Between the Oil Tank and the Cam Chest]]
   * [[techtalk:​ref:​engmech05f|Installing a Buell Rocker Box / Breather System on an Evo Sportster]]   * [[techtalk:​ref:​engmech05f|Installing a Buell Rocker Box / Breather System on an Evo Sportster]]
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 The filter adds resistance to the vent pressure coming out of the engine. \\ The filter adds resistance to the vent pressure coming out of the engine. \\
 This resistance can add to goop in the line / filter later. \\ This resistance can add to goop in the line / filter later. \\
 +It can also increase the vacuum inside the engine, which on a street bike, translates to weeping gaskets. \\
  
 The filter does not keep debris from coming back into the engine. ((Folkie of the XLFORUM http://​xlforum.net/​forums/​showthread.php?​p=2087347)) \\ The filter does not keep debris from coming back into the engine. ((Folkie of the XLFORUM http://​xlforum.net/​forums/​showthread.php?​p=2087347)) \\
Line 142: Line 143:
  
 If your breather valves are in good order, nothing can get back through them. \\ If your breather valves are in good order, nothing can get back through them. \\
-The exception to this would be 91-03 engines with the middle rocker box umbrella ​valve with the tiny hole behind it. \\+The exception to this would be small oil drainback hole that keeps oil from building up between ​the umbrella ​and the outlet. \\
 The tiny holes next to (and slightly lower than) the umbrella valves are for draining the separated oil back into the rocker box. \\ The tiny holes next to (and slightly lower than) the umbrella valves are for draining the separated oil back into the rocker box. \\
 However, there isn't large enough suction back on the vent line to pull debris up and into the engine. \\ However, there isn't large enough suction back on the vent line to pull debris up and into the engine. \\
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 {{:​techtalk:​ref:​engmech:​clogged_breather_filter_by_60gunner.jpg?​direct&​300|}} ((photo by 60Gunner of the XLFORUM http://​xlforum.net/​forums/​showthread.php?​t=2074059&​page=5)) {{:​techtalk:​ref:​engmech:​05_breather_mod_2_by_socal1200R_annotated_by_hippysmack.jpg?​direct&​300|}} ((photo by socal1200r of the XLFORUM, annotated by Hippysmack http://​xlforum.net/​forums/​showthread.php?​t=30844)) {{:​techtalk:​ref:​engmech:​clogged_breather_filter_by_60gunner.jpg?​direct&​300|}} ((photo by 60Gunner of the XLFORUM http://​xlforum.net/​forums/​showthread.php?​t=2074059&​page=5)) {{:​techtalk:​ref:​engmech:​05_breather_mod_2_by_socal1200R_annotated_by_hippysmack.jpg?​direct&​300|}} ((photo by socal1200r of the XLFORUM, annotated by Hippysmack http://​xlforum.net/​forums/​showthread.php?​t=30844))
  
-====== ​Pics of Aftermarket Breather Valves ======+====== Aftermarket Breather Valves ====== 
 + 
 +==== Sub Documents ==== 
 +  * [[techtalk:​ref:​engmech04a|Dissecting the Hayden KVP38 Crankcase Breather Valve]] 
 +  * [[techtalk:​ref:​engmech04b|Frequently Asked Questions About the Hayden Krankvent]] ​  
 + 
 +There is a product called a Krankvent that can be plumbed into the lower, 6 o’clock position as an alternative to a stock foo-foo valve. ((Hopper of the XLFORUM http://​xlforum.net/​forums/​showthread.php?​t=518948&​highlight=cam+chest+breather)) \\ 
 +But they are not cheap. Automotive PCV valves are not really made to handle the revs or air volumes of a Harley. \\ 
 +While a car engine is bigger, it has one piston coming down while one goes up. \\ 
 +So there'​s not much change in internal crankcase volume, so not as much breathing to be done. \\ 
 +A Harley has two pistons and rods on one crankpin, so is one giant air compressor. \\ 
 + 
 +Some guys have found that plumbing in a 77-78 foo-foo valve on the later model engines improves breathing. \\  
 + 
 +**Finding a better breather valve**: ((bunny32 of the XLFORUM http://​xlforum.net/​forums/​showthread.php?​t=15705&​page=2)) \\ 
 +The breather valves that work best on crankcase breathers have several features: \\ 
 +  * Low-inertia,​ i.e. they don't take more than a breath to open and close. 
 +  * They operate at low pressures ~1-30psi. 
 +  * They preferably have a floating type seal. 
 +  * They should be transparent,​ so you can see if they block up with blowby, solids, bugs etc. 
 +  * They should be easy to open and clean occasionally. 
 +  * They should push-fit into your breather line. 
 + 
 +Metal diaphragm valves with e.g. springs are hopeless. \\ 
 +Also avoid other types of valves designed to work at high pressures e.g. plumbing valves. \\ 
 +Avoid car PCV valves as they are metering as well as non-return valves and are unsuitable. \\ 
 +Automotive PCV valves are designed to let some air back in. \\ 
 +The ball and spring valves will not be able to work fast enough to keep all the air out. \\ 
 +When air is allowed to be drawn back into the engine, it creates a mass that must be compressed by the pistons on downstroke as it is being vented out. \\ 
 +This robs some power and will cause the engine to work harder (creating more internal heat at higher RPM). ((Deimus of the XLFORUM http://​xlforum.net/​forums/​showthread.php?​t=67658&​page=18)) \\ 
 + 
 +Aftermarket PCV's: ((electronbee of the XLFORUM http://​xlforum.net/​forums/​showthread.php?​t=72099&​highlight=reed+valve&​page=10)) \\ 
 +  * Mercedes Benz P/N# 271-018-00-29 ~$13. 
 +    * Reed type PCV valve. Fast acting. Used for their C 230 Kompressor engine. 
 +    * Dims: 2-1/2" long by 1-1/8" with an I.D of 1/4".  
 +  * McCaster Carr P/N# 4610K17 ~$6. 
 +    * Umbrella valve. Vacuum check valve. 
 +  * Autozone P/N# PCV1174 (PV272) ~$5. 
 +  * Ball/spring based PCV valve. 
 +    * Makes a clicking noise during operation.
  
-|Doherty Power Vents with the line routed up then \\ down and attached to the bottom of the frame. ((photo by RIORoosen of the XLFORUM http://​xlforum.net/​forums/​showthread.php?​t=146084&​page=18))| 
-|{{:​techtalk:​ref:​engmech:​breather_mod_by_rioroosen.jpg?​direct&​300|}}| 
  
 |Hayden KVP38 breather valve, used with the \\ [[techtalk:​ref:​engmech05d|Deimus Mod]] (cam chest breather conversion). ((photo by 60Gunner of the XLFORUM http://​xlforum.net/​forums/​showthread.php?​p=5763918#​post5763918))| ​ Hayden breather opened up. ((photos by leucadiaGuit of the XLFORUM http://​xlforum.net/​forums/​showthread.php?​t=2004869 cropped by Hippysmack)) ​ || |Hayden KVP38 breather valve, used with the \\ [[techtalk:​ref:​engmech05d|Deimus Mod]] (cam chest breather conversion). ((photo by 60Gunner of the XLFORUM http://​xlforum.net/​forums/​showthread.php?​p=5763918#​post5763918))| ​ Hayden breather opened up. ((photos by leucadiaGuit of the XLFORUM http://​xlforum.net/​forums/​showthread.php?​t=2004869 cropped by Hippysmack)) ​ ||
 |{{:​techtalk:​ref:​engmech:​deimus_mod_8_by_60gunner.jpg?​direct&​300|}}|{{:​techtalk:​ref:​engmech:​hayden_krankvent_3_by_leucadiaguit_-_cropped.jpg?​direct&​300|}}|{{:​techtalk:​ref:​engmech:​hayden_krankvent_2_by_leucadiaguit_-_cropped.jpg?​direct&​300|}}| |{{:​techtalk:​ref:​engmech:​deimus_mod_8_by_60gunner.jpg?​direct&​300|}}|{{:​techtalk:​ref:​engmech:​hayden_krankvent_3_by_leucadiaguit_-_cropped.jpg?​direct&​300|}}|{{:​techtalk:​ref:​engmech:​hayden_krankvent_2_by_leucadiaguit_-_cropped.jpg?​direct&​300|}}|
 +
 +|Doherty Power Vents with the line routed up then \\ down and attached to the bottom of the frame. ((photo by RIORoosen of the XLFORUM http://​xlforum.net/​forums/​showthread.php?​t=146084&​page=18))| ​ Doherty Power Vent ((Photo by goblin_dust of the XLFORUM http://​xlforum.net/​forums/​showthread.php?​t=72099&​highlight=wet+sumping&​page=23)) ​ |
 +|{{:​techtalk:​ref:​engmech:​breather_mod_by_rioroosen.jpg?​direct&​300|}}|{{:​techtalk:​ref:​engmech:​deimus_mod_2_by_goblin_dust.jpg?​direct&​300|}}|
 +
 +
 +|  Here is a 2-stroke reed valve. ((photo by norseXL of the XLFORUM http://​xlforum.net/​forums/​showthread.php?​t=1386341&​highlight=reed)) ​ |  Reed Valve ((photo by Bluto of the XLFORUM http://​xlforum.net/​forums/​showthread.php?​p=5761290#​post5761290)) ​ |
 +|{{:​techtalk:​ref:​engmech:​reed_valve_by_norsexl.jpg?​direct&​300|}}|{{:​techtalk:​ref:​engmech:​reed_valve_by_bluto.jpg?​direct&​300|}}|
 +
 +|  Mercedes Benz P/N# 271-018-00-29 ((photo by electronbee of the XLFORUM http://​xlforum.net/​forums/​showthread.php?​t=72099&​highlight=reed+valve&​page=10)) ​ |
 +|{{:​techtalk:​ref:​engmech:​mercedes_benz_pcv_valve_by_electronbee.jpg?​direct&​300|}}|
 +
 +====== Homemade Breather Valves ======
 +This was made by norseXL of the XLFORUM and is a direct derivative of the 86-90 breather valve setup.((http://​xlforum.net/​forums/​showthread.php?​p=5809352#​post5809352)) \\
 +
 +A male threaded cap was made to screw into the female threaded body of the breather valve container as shown below. \\
 +The center of the cap was drilled and tapped for a hollow (5.5mm) M10 bolt. \\
 +The cam cover was also drilled and tapped for M10 threads. \\
 +The brass adapter for the banjo also has M10 internal threads. \\
 +
 +The umbrella inside the body is the stock 91-03 umbrella. \\
 +A 1.5mm hole was drilled into the bottom side of the body to drain any oil that makes it past the umbrella. \\
 +
 +
 +{{:​techtalk:​ref:​engmech:​homemade_breather_vavle_1_by_norsexl.jpg?​direct&​300|}} {{:​techtalk:​ref:​engmech:​homemade_breather_vavle_3_by_norsexl.jpg?​direct&​300|}} \\
 +
 +{{:​techtalk:​ref:​engmech:​homemade_breather_vavle_4_by_norsexl.jpg?​direct&​300|}} {{:​techtalk:​ref:​engmech:​homemade_breather_vavle_5_by_norsexl.jpg?​direct&​300|}} {{:​techtalk:​ref:​engmech:​homemade_breather_vavle_2_by_norsexl.jpg?​direct&​300|}} \\
 +