Differences
This shows you the differences between two versions of the page.
| Both sides previous revision Previous revision Next revision | Previous revision | ||
|
techtalk:ref:oil05a [2019/06/12 18:16] hippysmack |
techtalk:ref:oil05a [2023/12/25 23:40] (current) hippysmack |
||
|---|---|---|---|
| Line 2: | Line 2: | ||
| ====== REF: Oiling & Lubrication - Sub-05A ====== | ====== REF: Oiling & Lubrication - Sub-05A ====== | ||
| ====== High Pressure Oil Bypass ====== | ====== High Pressure Oil Bypass ====== | ||
| + | **This is a Race Only Mod - Install this mod at your own risk!**. \\ | ||
| + | This mod can also be installed on motors with EXTREME wetsumping issues. \\ | ||
| + | Generally speaking, if a street motor wet sumps bad enough to NEED this mod, there are many more items to check off that might need attention instead. \\ | ||
| + | \\ | ||
| + | |||
| **Theory behind installing a high pressure bypass**: \\ | **Theory behind installing a high pressure bypass**: \\ | ||
| The supply side of the oil pump is over supplying oil to the crank case during sustained high RPM running. \\ | The supply side of the oil pump is over supplying oil to the crank case during sustained high RPM running. \\ | ||
| - | The motor is designed to run with a dry sump. ((rob@robertsystems.com of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59421&page=40)) \\ | + | The motor is designed to run with a dry sump. ((rob@robertsystems.com of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/vendors/nrhs-high-performance/33374-04s-and-up-and-oil-use/page40?t=59421&page=40)) \\ |
| (with only enough oil in the crank case to lubricate the bearings, not a 'splash' wet sump lubrication design) \\ | (with only enough oil in the crank case to lubricate the bearings, not a 'splash' wet sump lubrication design) \\ | ||
| When the sump gets wet, the crank sees a lot of resistance due to the oil pooling there. \\ | When the sump gets wet, the crank sees a lot of resistance due to the oil pooling there. \\ | ||
| Line 11: | Line 16: | ||
| Just adding a cooler may not solve this problem. \\ | Just adding a cooler may not solve this problem. \\ | ||
| You need to get the oil out of the crankcase so it does not interfere with motion of the crank and cause the heating problem in the first place. \\ | You need to get the oil out of the crankcase so it does not interfere with motion of the crank and cause the heating problem in the first place. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | To regulate the oil pressure you have to bleed some of it off. ((aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-bottom-end/148108-oil-pressure?postcount=6#post3158531)) \\ | ||
| + | 4-speeds have a spring loaded pressure regulator built into the oil filter pad that does exactly that. \\ | ||
| + | There's a passage from the filter pad into the cam box. \\ | ||
| + | If the pressure gets high enough, the regulator opens and bleeds off some of the pressurized oil, dropping it into the cam box. \\ | ||
| + | Then it eventually drains down to the crankcase and gets pumped back to the tank. \\ | ||
| + | They did away with the pressure regulator on 92 and up 5-speed XL's though. \\ | ||
| + | Evo Big Twins have a spring loaded bleed-off regulator, as do Twinkies, XR1200's, and 08-up Buells. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| Some have found it useful to build bypass circuits to bleed off excess oil pressure and send it back to the tank. \\ | Some have found it useful to build bypass circuits to bleed off excess oil pressure and send it back to the tank. \\ | ||
| Line 16: | Line 30: | ||
| But this does reduce oil pressure across the board, as opposed to opening a bypass when the pressure exceeds a certain point. \\ | But this does reduce oil pressure across the board, as opposed to opening a bypass when the pressure exceeds a certain point. \\ | ||
| - | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_14_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showpost.php?p=4341107&postcount=6)) | + | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_14_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-bottom-end/148108-oil-pressure?postcount=6#post3158531)) |
| ====== Homemade Oil System Bypass (OSB) ====== | ====== Homemade Oil System Bypass (OSB) ====== | ||
| - | Article by aswracing of the XLFORUM ((http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=754838#post754838)) | + | Article by aswracing of the XLFORUM ((https://www.xlforum.net/forum/vendors/nrhs-high-performance/33374-04s-and-up-and-oil-use/page20#post724787)) |
| **Background**: \\ | **Background**: \\ | ||
| Line 25: | Line 39: | ||
| - | * This is exactly what I did to my '04 a few years ago, using a 145 CV jet, and it totally cured the wet sumping. I started with a 165 jet, but it seemed to lower the oil pressure too much, as the oil light would flicker at idle when the motor was good and hot. I swapped it to a 145 and haven't seen the oil light flicker since. | + | * This is exactly what I did to my 2004 a few years ago, using a 145 CV jet, and it totally cured the wet sumping. I started with a 165 jet, but it seemed to lower the oil pressure too much, as the oil light would flicker at idle when the motor was good and hot. I swapped it to a 145 and haven't seen the oil light flicker since. |
| * I run the bejeezus out of my bike and this has caused no issues. | * I run the bejeezus out of my bike and this has caused no issues. | ||
| * I did not invent this idea by any means. Probably the first guy who ever raced a Sportster came up with it. Wet sumping has been an issue on high rpm Sportsters for forever, and for some reason, with the oiling system changes on the '04, it got a whole ton worse, we're even seeing it on mildly modified street bikes. | * I did not invent this idea by any means. Probably the first guy who ever raced a Sportster came up with it. Wet sumping has been an issue on high rpm Sportsters for forever, and for some reason, with the oiling system changes on the '04, it got a whole ton worse, we're even seeing it on mildly modified street bikes. | ||
| - | * I learned it from Ron Dickey (of Axtell). ((aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2073512&page=6)) \\ By the way, when Ron told me about it, he also described dyno testing it. \\ He has a Stuska water brake dyno with a strain gauge and DePac instrumentation and he can do steady state torque and power measurements. \\ He said he could watch the power rise as he lowered the oil pressure (I think he had a valve on the bypass so he could adjust the oil pressure). \\ He threw out a number, in terms of HP gain. It was a big number, relatively speaking. | + | * I learned it from Ron Dickey (of Axtell). ((aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/frame-mount-evo-sportster-talk-1986-2003-models/196950-wet-sumping/page6?t=2073512&page=6)) \\ By the way, when Ron told me about it, he also described dyno testing it. \\ He has a Stuska water brake dyno with a strain gauge and DePac instrumentation and he can do steady state torque and power measurements. \\ He said he could watch the power rise as he lowered the oil pressure (I think he had a valve on the bypass so he could adjust the oil pressure). \\ He threw out a number, in terms of HP gain. It was a big number, relatively speaking. |
| * Of course, much depends on how badly the motor is wet sumping to begin with. \\ I've seen wet sumping motors that were literally 30hp down on the dyno. \\ They literally came up 30hp when the wet sumping issue was solved. | * Of course, much depends on how badly the motor is wet sumping to begin with. \\ I've seen wet sumping motors that were literally 30hp down on the dyno. \\ They literally came up 30hp when the wet sumping issue was solved. | ||
| * Another thing I've noticed, a badly wet sumping motor often shows extreme motor braking. I once worked on a bike that would literally chirp the rear tire when you chopped the throttle. Felt like it wanted to throw you over the bars. | * Another thing I've noticed, a badly wet sumping motor often shows extreme motor braking. I once worked on a bike that would literally chirp the rear tire when you chopped the throttle. Felt like it wanted to throw you over the bars. | ||
| Line 35: | Line 49: | ||
| **Do you need this mod?**: \\ | **Do you need this mod?**: \\ | ||
| - | Wet sumping at high RPMs is really a big problem with the 883 to 1200 conversions as they are running much higher rpms which leads to the wet sumping. ((NRHS Sales of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59421&page=30)) \\ | + | Wet sumping at high RPMs is really a big problem with the 883 to 1200 conversions as they are running much higher rpms which leads to the wet sumping. ((NRHS Sales of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/vendors/nrhs-high-performance/33374-04s-and-up-and-oil-use/page30?t=59421&page=30)) \\ |
| The 1200s run less rpms so they are not as prone to having it happen. \\ | The 1200s run less rpms so they are not as prone to having it happen. \\ | ||
| Now if you routinely run above 4,000 rpms then you should consider doing this mod anyway. | Now if you routinely run above 4,000 rpms then you should consider doing this mod anyway. | ||
| Line 45: | Line 59: | ||
| This mod is not recommended on 91-03 or older bikes unless you believe they are wet sumping at high revs. \\ | This mod is not recommended on 91-03 or older bikes unless you believe they are wet sumping at high revs. \\ | ||
| - | Also, I have yet to see this issue resolved with an oil pump. ((aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59421&page=33)) \\ | + | Also, I have yet to see this issue resolved with an oil pump. ((aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/vendors/nrhs-high-performance/33374-04s-and-up-and-oil-use/page33?t=59421&page=33)) \\ |
| I can tell you that I once put a Pro-Flow billet 3-stage pump onto a problem motor (a Bonneville motor of mine) and it wet sumped anyway. \\ | I can tell you that I once put a Pro-Flow billet 3-stage pump onto a problem motor (a Bonneville motor of mine) and it wet sumped anyway. \\ | ||
| I broke the cases on that motor shortly after that, and when I rebuilt it, I went with a set of S&S cases and never saw the problem again. \\ | I broke the cases on that motor shortly after that, and when I rebuilt it, I went with a set of S&S cases and never saw the problem again. \\ | ||
| Line 70: | Line 84: | ||
| **Notes**: \\ | **Notes**: \\ | ||
| - | Before someone goes tapping a hole, make sure of the size of the threads on your jet before you tap it. ((chrishajer of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59421&page=31)) \\ | + | Before someone goes tapping a hole, make sure of the size of the threads on your jet before you tap it. ((chrishajer of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/vendors/nrhs-high-performance/33374-04s-and-up-and-oil-use/page31?t=59421&page=31)) \\ |
| Different fittings have different inside diameters. \\ | Different fittings have different inside diameters. \\ | ||
| Line 80: | Line 94: | ||
| The fitting will be smaller, at least on the hose barb end, and you can always put the jet there instead of the pipe thread end. \\ | The fitting will be smaller, at least on the hose barb end, and you can always put the jet there instead of the pipe thread end. \\ | ||
| - | The original 04-up forward fitting may not work in the street tee. ((aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59421&page=31)) \\ | + | The original 04-up forward fitting may not work in the street tee. ((aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/vendors/nrhs-high-performance/33374-04s-and-up-and-oil-use/page31?t=59421&page=31)) \\ |
| If it did, it would reduce the parts list. \\ | If it did, it would reduce the parts list. \\ | ||
| But original hose needs to be able to bend enough not to kink. \\ | But original hose needs to be able to bend enough not to kink. \\ | ||
| Line 89: | Line 103: | ||
| But that'd be destructive to the hose, if he ever wanted to take it back to the stock configuration. \\ | But that'd be destructive to the hose, if he ever wanted to take it back to the stock configuration. \\ | ||
| - | It's easier to remove the cam cover to access the return oil line. ((Deimus of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59421&page=34)) \\ | + | It's easier to remove the cam cover to access the return oil line. ((Deimus of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/vendors/nrhs-high-performance/33374-04s-and-up-and-oil-use/page34?t=59421&page=34)) \\ |
| **Caution**: The rocker box should be loosened / removed before removing the cam cover to prevent damage to the cam bushings. \\ | **Caution**: The rocker box should be loosened / removed before removing the cam cover to prevent damage to the cam bushings. \\ | ||
| See [[techtalk:evo:engmech04a|Removing the Rocker Boxes]] in the Evo section of the Sportsterpedia. \\ | See [[techtalk:evo:engmech04a|Removing the Rocker Boxes]] in the Evo section of the Sportsterpedia. \\ | ||
| See also [[techtalk:evo:engmech01#removing_the_cam_cover|Removing the Cam Cover]]. \\ | See also [[techtalk:evo:engmech01#removing_the_cam_cover|Removing the Cam Cover]]. \\ | ||
| - | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_1_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=754838#post754838)) | + | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_1_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/vendors/nrhs-high-performance/33374-04s-and-up-and-oil-use/page20#post724787)) |
| Line 102: | Line 116: | ||
| * The scavenge section has two inlets, neither of which has a hose or is visible. What matters to us is the hose that's green in this photo. Yours won't be green, I put a green hose on this one to make it easy to identify. This is the scavenge section outlet, or return line, where the oil being pumped out of the engine is returned to the tank. | * The scavenge section has two inlets, neither of which has a hose or is visible. What matters to us is the hose that's green in this photo. Yours won't be green, I put a green hose on this one to make it easy to identify. This is the scavenge section outlet, or return line, where the oil being pumped out of the engine is returned to the tank. | ||
| - | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_2_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=754838#post754838)) | + | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_2_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/vendors/nrhs-high-performance/33374-04s-and-up-and-oil-use/page20#post724787)) |
| Line 108: | Line 122: | ||
| - | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_3_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=754838#post754838)) | + | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_3_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/vendors/nrhs-high-performance/33374-04s-and-up-and-oil-use/page20#post724787)) |
| Line 114: | Line 128: | ||
| - | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_4_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=754838#post754838)) | + | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_4_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/vendors/nrhs-high-performance/33374-04s-and-up-and-oil-use/page20#post724787)) |
| Line 120: | Line 134: | ||
| - | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_5_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=754838#post754838)) | + | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_5_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/vendors/nrhs-high-performance/33374-04s-and-up-and-oil-use/page20#post724787)) |
| Line 126: | Line 140: | ||
| - | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_6_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=754838#post754838)) | + | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_6_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/vendors/nrhs-high-performance/33374-04s-and-up-and-oil-use/page20#post724787)) |
| Line 132: | Line 146: | ||
| - | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_7_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=754838#post754838)) | + | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_7_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/vendors/nrhs-high-performance/33374-04s-and-up-and-oil-use/page20#post724787)) |
| Line 138: | Line 152: | ||
| - | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_8_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=754838#post754838)) | + | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_8_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/vendors/nrhs-high-performance/33374-04s-and-up-and-oil-use/page20#post724787)) |
| Line 145: | Line 159: | ||
| - | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_9_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=754838#post754838)) | + | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_9_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/vendors/nrhs-high-performance/33374-04s-and-up-and-oil-use/page20#post724787)) |
| Line 151: | Line 165: | ||
| - | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_10_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=754838#post754838)) | + | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_10_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/vendors/nrhs-high-performance/33374-04s-and-up-and-oil-use/page20#post724787)) |
| Line 157: | Line 171: | ||
| - | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_11_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=754838#post754838)) | + | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_11_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/vendors/nrhs-high-performance/33374-04s-and-up-and-oil-use/page20#post724787)) |
| Line 163: | Line 177: | ||
| - | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_12_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=754838#post754838)) | + | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_12_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/vendors/nrhs-high-performance/33374-04s-and-up-and-oil-use/page20#post724787)) |
| Line 169: | Line 183: | ||
| - | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_13_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=754838#post754838)) | + | {{:techtalk:ref:oil:oil_pressure_bypass_mod_13_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&600|}} ((pic by aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/vendors/nrhs-high-performance/33374-04s-and-up-and-oil-use/page20#post724787)) |
| ====== Feedback from installing this mod ====== | ====== Feedback from installing this mod ====== | ||
| - | |||
| **Bike**: 2005 1200C: \\ | **Bike**: 2005 1200C: \\ | ||
| **Condition trying to fix**: High oil temps at high rpm. \\ | **Condition trying to fix**: High oil temps at high rpm. \\ | ||
| - | <blockquote>My first test ride after installing the bypass, I saw cooler oil temps. ((Deimus of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59421&page=37)) \\ | + | <blockquote>My first test ride after installing the bypass, I saw cooler oil temps. ((Deimus of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/vendors/nrhs-high-performance/33374-04s-and-up-and-oil-use/page37?t=59421&page=37)) \\ |
| But at the end of the ride while stuck at lights idling for extended periods, excessively loud sounds came from the top end. \\ | But at the end of the ride while stuck at lights idling for extended periods, excessively loud sounds came from the top end. \\ | ||
| These would go away when the engine revved up after pulling out from the light. \\ | These would go away when the engine revved up after pulling out from the light. \\ | ||
| Line 187: | Line 200: | ||
| **Bike**: assumed rubbermount: \\ | **Bike**: assumed rubbermount: \\ | ||
| **Condition trying to fix**: High oil temps at high rpm. \\ | **Condition trying to fix**: High oil temps at high rpm. \\ | ||
| - | <blockquote>Have had the fix in now for about a week. No problems. ((bubbas1 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59421&page=41)) \\ | + | <blockquote>Have had the fix in now for about a week. No problems. ((bubbas1 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/vendors/nrhs-high-performance/33374-04s-and-up-and-oil-use/page41?t=59421&page=41)) \\ |
| Wife and I took bike on interstate yesterday and were cruising at about 80 for a good distance. \\ | Wife and I took bike on interstate yesterday and were cruising at about 80 for a good distance. \\ | ||
| Temp got to 200. No problem. \\ | Temp got to 200. No problem. \\ | ||
| Line 219: | Line 232: | ||
| Later, a cam chest breather mod was discovered by Deimus of the XLFORUM that was deemed a fix for better crankcase venting. \\ | Later, a cam chest breather mod was discovered by Deimus of the XLFORUM that was deemed a fix for better crankcase venting. \\ | ||
| That mod did reduce crankcase pressure allowing for lower engine temps. | That mod did reduce crankcase pressure allowing for lower engine temps. | ||
| - | You can read about it here in the Sportsterpedia: [[techtalk:ref:oil05d|Installing the Ultimate Crankcase Vent]]. \\ | + | You can read about it here in the Sportsterpedia: [[techtalk:ref:engmech05d|Installing the Ultimate Crankcase Vent]]. \\ |
| **Coincidence**? \\ | **Coincidence**? \\ | ||
| Line 230: | Line 243: | ||
| (to make sure there is still enough pressure to keep proper oil to the lifters during hot idle or low speeds) \\ | (to make sure there is still enough pressure to keep proper oil to the lifters during hot idle or low speeds) \\ | ||
| - | | 98 cam chest. ((photo by isiahstites of the XLFORUM and labeled by Hippysmack http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=51598&page=5)) | | + | | 98 cam chest. ((photo by isiahstites of the XLFORUM and labeled by Hippysmack https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-buell-motorcycle-racing/lsr-sporster-buell-motorcycle-land-speed-record/31067-my-ls-build/page5?t=51598&page=5)) | |
| |{{:techtalk:evo:oil:98_cam_chest_by_isiahstites.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:evo:oil:98_cam_chest_by_isiahstites.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
