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techtalk:ref:svcproc11l [2023/10/23 22:16] hippysmack [Neutral to 1st on a Cold Start] |
techtalk:ref:svcproc11l [2024/04/10 02:34] (current) hippysmack [Not Using the Clutch to Shift] |
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| {{ :common:sporsterpedia_by_graywolf_of_the_xlforum.gif?nolink& |Logo by Graywolf of the XLFORUM}} | {{ :common:sporsterpedia_by_graywolf_of_the_xlforum.gif?nolink& |Logo by Graywolf of the XLFORUM}} | ||
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| ====== Gear Dog Damage: Inspection and Causes ====== | ====== Gear Dog Damage: Inspection and Causes ====== | ||
| This article is written in defense of the dogs on the gears. \\ | This article is written in defense of the dogs on the gears. \\ | ||
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| ===== Worn Dogs (hopping out of gear) ===== | ===== Worn Dogs (hopping out of gear) ===== | ||
| The gear dogs can wear just about anywhere around them for several different reasons. \\ | The gear dogs can wear just about anywhere around them for several different reasons. \\ | ||
| - | The most common thing that happens is when the corners get rounded off instead of being flat on the edges. ((mikeLI_77 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2072870)) \\ | + | The most common thing that happens is when the corners get rounded off instead of being flat on the edges. ((mikeLI_77 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/196356-popped-outa-2nd-gear?t=2072870)) \\ |
| A gear may hop out of dog mesh. \\ | A gear may hop out of dog mesh. \\ | ||
| It feels like the transmission jumped into neutral for a second and then jumped back in gear. \\ | It feels like the transmission jumped into neutral for a second and then jumped back in gear. \\ | ||
| - | It's usually a momentary hop-out. In other words, it hops out and then right back in. ((aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2082693&page=4)) \\ | + | It's usually a momentary hop-out. In other words, it hops out and then right back in. ((aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/205269-possible-slipping-in-drivetrain-looking-for-help/page4?t=2082693&page=4)) \\ |
| So the bike hesitates during acceleration and then jerks back forward again. \\ | So the bike hesitates during acceleration and then jerks back forward again. \\ | ||
| - | This is the common cause of hop-out, although checking the pawl adjustment with a .116" drill bit per the service manual should certainly be done first. ((aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2072870)) \\ | + | This is the common cause of hop-out, although checking the pawl adjustment with a .116" drill bit per the service manual should certainly be done first. ((aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/196356-popped-outa-2nd-gear?t=2072870)) \\ |
| But you can check that on your way to pulling the transmission. \\ | But you can check that on your way to pulling the transmission. \\ | ||
| - | | Worn dogs ((photo by aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2072870)) || | + | | Worn dogs ((photo by aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/196356-popped-outa-2nd-gear?t=2072870)) || |
| |{{:techtalk:ref:svcproc:worn_dogs_1_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:svcproc:worn_dogs_2_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ref:svcproc:worn_dogs_1_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:svcproc:worn_dogs_2_by_aswracing.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
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| So the gear hops (or backs) out of dog mesh. \\ | So the gear hops (or backs) out of dog mesh. \\ | ||
| Meanwhile, the fork is still trying to hold the gear in mesh and forces the gear back "home" and the cycle continues. \\ | Meanwhile, the fork is still trying to hold the gear in mesh and forces the gear back "home" and the cycle continues. \\ | ||
| - | |||
| ===== Dog Repair ===== | ===== Dog Repair ===== | ||
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| If firing up in 1st instead, you'll still get the lunge forward (even holding the clutch lever in) but the dogs are already meshed with their corresponding slots. \\ | If firing up in 1st instead, you'll still get the lunge forward (even holding the clutch lever in) but the dogs are already meshed with their corresponding slots. \\ | ||
| This minimizes the possibility of damage to the dogs and slots. \\ | This minimizes the possibility of damage to the dogs and slots. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| ==== Delayed Shifting ==== | ==== Delayed Shifting ==== | ||
| A "fast shift" doesn't mean slamming the shifter pedal. It means to be sure and shift soon after pulling the clutch. \\ | A "fast shift" doesn't mean slamming the shifter pedal. It means to be sure and shift soon after pulling the clutch. \\ | ||
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| Closing the throttle before pulling the clutch lever will keep from preloading the mainshaft while the clutch is disengaged and will allow for disengagement of dogs without that load on them. \\ | Closing the throttle before pulling the clutch lever will keep from preloading the mainshaft while the clutch is disengaged and will allow for disengagement of dogs without that load on them. \\ | ||
| It's important for that load not to be on the gears. \\ | It's important for that load not to be on the gears. \\ | ||
| - | With added load, as the gear combinations separate from one gear to go to the next, the sliding gear is pressed harder against the adjacent gear it is trying to pull away from. That could lead to burring or chipping of the corners with load applied then as they separate. \\ The dog corners are chamfered to discourage chipping in that instance but that is not a fool proof solution. \\ | + | With added load, as the gear combinations separate from one gear to go to the next, the sliding gear is pressed harder against the adjacent gear it is trying to pull away from. That could lead to burring or chipping of the corners with load applied then as they separate. \\ |
| + | The dog corners are chamfered to discourage chipping in that instance but that is not a fool proof solution. \\ | ||
| ==== Not Using the Clutch to Shift ==== | ==== Not Using the Clutch to Shift ==== | ||
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| The dogs do not all turn at the same speed. \\ | The dogs do not all turn at the same speed. \\ | ||
| So a sliding gear will most likely be turning at a different speed than the gear it either has to separate from or come together with. \\ | So a sliding gear will most likely be turning at a different speed than the gear it either has to separate from or come together with. \\ | ||
| - | If both these gears are being driven, neither has the ability to slow down to allow ease of dog mesh. \\ | + | If both these gears are being driven, neither has the ability to slow down or otherwise concede to allow ease of dog mesh. \\ |
| That will eventually lead to crunching dog corners no matter how experienced one is at speed shifting. \\ | That will eventually lead to crunching dog corners no matter how experienced one is at speed shifting. \\ | ||
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| This can also lead to damaging the gear dogs as they try to mate with both the engine and rear tire loading the transmission. \\ | This can also lead to damaging the gear dogs as they try to mate with both the engine and rear tire loading the transmission. \\ | ||
| [[techtalk:evo:priclutch01#clutch_release_adjustment_-_why_how|Click Here]] to see the Evo clutch page in the Sportsterpedia. \\ | [[techtalk:evo:priclutch01#clutch_release_adjustment_-_why_how|Click Here]] to see the Evo clutch page in the Sportsterpedia. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| ===== Shifter Out of Adjustment ===== | ===== Shifter Out of Adjustment ===== | ||
| The shifter assembly has designed "slop" or looseness, built in by the factory, to buffer the various conditions involved with the shifter and the transmission. \\ | The shifter assembly has designed "slop" or looseness, built in by the factory, to buffer the various conditions involved with the shifter and the transmission. \\ | ||
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| If you are sure the adjustment is correct, you may need to dig deeper looking for other parts in need of repair. \\ | If you are sure the adjustment is correct, you may need to dig deeper looking for other parts in need of repair. \\ | ||
| [[techtalk:ref:svcproc11a|Click Here]] to see the page Setting 1991-2003 Shift Pawl Position in the Sportsterpedia. \\ | [[techtalk:ref:svcproc11a|Click Here]] to see the page Setting 1991-2003 Shift Pawl Position in the Sportsterpedia. \\ | ||
| - | |||
| ===== Worn Parts ===== | ===== Worn Parts ===== | ||
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| * Fire up in 1st gear with the clutch pulled. \\ | * Fire up in 1st gear with the clutch pulled. \\ | ||
| * **Shifting Habits**. | * **Shifting Habits**. | ||
| - | * It's best to shift soon after pulling the clutch \\ (Sportster) dog type transmissions don't have synchronizers to match gear speeds before engagement. So when you shift, the dogs just slam into the gear next to them. ((aswracing of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1291098)) \\ The closer you can speed match the gears, the less violent that engagement will be. \\ Timing your upshifts so that while the clutch is in and the throttle chopped, the engine falls to about the right rpm for the next gear, will help. \\ Likewise a little blip of the throttle while the clutch is in on the downshift, to bring the motor up to right rpm for the lower gear, will help. \\ | + | * It's best to shift soon after pulling the clutch \\ (Sportster) dog type transmissions don't have synchronizers to match gear speeds before engagement. So when you shift, the dogs just slam into the gear next to them. ((aswracing of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/126748-gear-dogs?t=1291098)) \\ The closer you can speed match the gears, the less violent that engagement will be. \\ Timing your upshifts so that while the clutch is in and the throttle chopped, the engine falls to about the right rpm for the next gear, will help. \\ Likewise a little blip of the throttle while the clutch is in on the downshift, to bring the motor up to right rpm for the lower gear, will help. \\ |
| * It's best to shift with a little attitude instead of a lazy shift (easing the shift pedal with your foot). \\ | * It's best to shift with a little attitude instead of a lazy shift (easing the shift pedal with your foot). \\ | ||
| * It's best to close the throttle before pulling the clutch during a shift. \\ The 1998 service manual on shifting gears reads: \\ //__close the throttle, disengage the clutch and lift the gear shifter pedal up to the end of its travel. Engage the clutch and operate the throttle gradually__.// | * It's best to close the throttle before pulling the clutch during a shift. \\ The 1998 service manual on shifting gears reads: \\ //__close the throttle, disengage the clutch and lift the gear shifter pedal up to the end of its travel. Engage the clutch and operate the throttle gradually__.// | ||
