Differences

This shows you the differences between two versions of the page.

--- techtalk:ref:wheels03a [2019/04/17 20:54]
hippysmack [Master cylinder issues]
+++ techtalk:ref:wheels03a [2019/04/22 02:33]
hippysmack removed
@@ Line 310: / Line 310: @@
 ===== Before bleeding =====
-  * **Before attempting to bleed the lines**;
+==== Before attempting to bleed the lines ====
     * Remove the M/C top, actuate the pedal / lever and make sure you can see a bubble in the center to make sure the M/C is working.
       * Pump hard on the brake pedal lever. You should see a small buble as mentioned above.
@@ Line 321: / Line 322: @@
     * When you crack the bleeder valve, only turn it a 1/4 turn or so. ((DaytonaSportster of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1637840&page=2)) \\  Any more and you will get air from around the threads. \\ Also if you're using a vac, make sure it's not leaking where you attach it to the bleeder nipple.
-  * **How the master cylinder transfers fluid**:
+==== How the master cylinder transfers fluid ====
     * The downstroke, pushing the pedal / pulling the lever, forces (only) what's in the lines already into the hose. ((Hippysmack of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5740029#post5740029)) \\ Releasing the pedal (pedal at rest) is what adds fluid into the lines from the M/C reservoir.
     * The compensation port (from the reservoir) sits just in front of the main plunger seal. \\ The lever has to fully retract or the port get's blocked off by the seal.
@@ Line 332: / Line 334: @@
 |{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:master_cylinder_cutaway_1_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:master_cylinder_cutaway_2_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:master_cylinder_cutaway_3_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|
-  * **Notes regarding brake fluid**: \\
+==== Notes regarding brake fluid ====
-    * Paint peel-ability of different fluids: \\ DOT 3,4 & 5.1 can peel the paint on frame and other painted parts. \\ DOT 5 is silicon based and will not peel the paint. \\ You can spill DOT 5 brake fluid virtually anywhere and harm nothing. ((IronMick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=867917&page=2))
+Also reference the [[techtalk:ref:wheels03#brake_fluid|Brake Fluid]] article in the REF section of the Sportsterpedia for type per year model, specs, mixing fluids etc. \\
-    * **Caution**: \\ Do not mix DOT 5 with (DOT 3,4 or 5.1) \\ Also reference the [[techtalk:ref:wheels03#brake_fluid|Brake Fluid]] article in the REF section of the Sportsterpedia for type per year model, specs, mixing fluids etc. \\
+  * **Make sure you do regular brake fluid changes according to the FSM change intervals**. \\ If the bike has sat for a long period of time, it's best to go ahead and plan on changing both front and rear.
+  * **Paint peel-ability of different fluids**:
+    * DOT 3,4 & 5.1 can peel the paint on frame and other painted parts. \\ DOT 5 is silicon based and will not peel the paint. \\ You can spill DOT 5 brake fluid virtually anywhere and harm nothing. ((IronMick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=867917&page=2))
+  * **Caution**:
+    * Do not mix DOT 5 with (DOT 3,4 or 5.1)
+|  Note the gooey mess from mixing Dot 5 and Dot 3 fluids. ((photos by FearlessFrisbee of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1508535))  ||
+|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:dot_5_-_dot_3_mix_goop_1_by_fearlessfrisbee.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:dot_5_-_dot_3_mix_goop_2_by_fearlessfrisbee.jpg?direct&300|}}|
+  * **DOT 3,4,and 5.1 can dry up over time**:
+    * Any type brake fluid can break down over time, solids fall out of suspension and clog up orifices.
+    * However, DOT 3, 4 and 5.1 will mix with water and they will dry up as water does over time.
+    * Look for corrosion in the aluminum in addition to the goo. \\ It's caused by the fluid absorbing water when the bikes sit for a long time and or the fluid is not changed for a long time. \\ Too long and you may find pits in the body of the MC and / or bore pitted beyond being cleanable with a hone. ((FearlessFrisbee of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1509571))
+|  Affects of dried up DOT 3 brake fluid. ((photos by Daddio of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1509571))  ||
+|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:dot_3_dried_up_1_by_daddio.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:dot_3_dried_up_2_by_daddio.jpg?direct&300|}}|
+==== Notes regarding brake lines ====
-  * **Notes regarding brake lines**: \\
     * Take the trash out. \\ Check the M/C, calipers and lines to make sure they are free from debris or sludge. \\ Old brake fluid will break down and solids will fall out of suspension and block passage ways.
     * Old rubber brake lines may get weak from the inside. \\ This can cause them to bulge at the weak spot and not send pressure to the caliper. \\ It's sort of like a baloon being inflated. ((jharback of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1637840)) \\ It doesn't do it normally enough to be noticed (but enough to drive you crazy trying to track the problem down). \\ Just keep an eye on them while actuating the lever / pedal.
-  * **Lever / Pedal**: \\
+==== Lever / Pedal ====
     * Make sure the piece that hooks up to the actual lever that controls the brake is adjusted correctly. \\ It makes a considerable difference in the function of the M/C. ((DIESEL of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=91538&page=2))
-  * **Check for leaks**. \\
+==== Check for leaks ====
     * If you pull the cap off the M/C and the reservoir is very low or dry, that usually points to a leak somewhere. ((Deimus of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=91538)) \\ Possible, even if you could bleed it, there is still a problem that you should take care of. \\ Before you can build pressure, the system has to be leak free. \\ (this is especially important when changing lines / components) \\ Gussers will be obvious. But weeping leaks may be harder to detect in a fast visual scan.
     * **There is no reason to use Teflon tape on any brake connections**. \\ If you want to seal the threads on the bleeder screw (normally unnecessary with conventional bleeding) try greasing the threads first. \\ Teflon tape can get sucked into and stop up the orifices (especially on flared fittings).
-  * **Trapped air**: \\ Trapped air that refuses to leave will drive you crazy trying to find it.
+==== Trapped air ====
+Trapped air that refuses to leave will drive you crazy trying to find it.
     * **Brake fluid**: \\
       * When DOT 3, 4 or 5.1 fluids trap air, the smaller bubbles can migrate and come together to form bigger bubbles that are fairly easy to remove. ((Gold951 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=53378&page=2))
@@ Line 449: / Line 471: @@
     * Once this process is done, install the M/C, hook up your actual brake lines and continue bleeding at the caliper bleed screw.
 ===== Master cylinder issues =====
-  * **Clean the hole(s) in the bottom of the master cylinder:**
+  * **Note**:
+    * Bleeding air out of a Sporty master cylinder can be a frustrating task.
+    * Before suspecting the master cylinder, make sure you've exhausted your bleeding options before rebuilding the M/C for no reason.
+    * While fresh seals is never a bad idea;
+      *There has been a number of unnecessary rebuilds. \\ (when the rebuild simply allowed time or convenience for the air to be expelled).
+  * **Clean the hole(s) in the bottom of the master cylinder**:
     * The transfer hole(s) can get clogged from debris or solids that drop out of suspension in the fluid itself. \\ Clear them with a pin, a bristle from a wire brush, welding tip cleaner or other or the master cylinder will not transfer fluid properly.
     * The holes can be plugged up solid yet still look like there is nothing in them. ((Hopper of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=295754&page=2))
@@ Line 460: / Line 488: @@
       * What seems to happen is that the primary cup gets torn in the center and it manages to still work as long as the MC is not disturbed much. \\ (since it is backed up with that flat metal plunger which helps it seal even though broken)
       * **Symptoms include**:
-        * Loss of brake pressure and then it's regained as you ride. ((CBAS5 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65452)) \\ Or, you may 'feel' something different with the brake pedal but the brakes may still function just fine.  ((devilswild66 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65452))
+        * Loss of brake pressure and then it's regained as you ride. ((CBAS5 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65452)) \\ Or, you may 'feel' something different with the brake pedal but the brakes may still function just fine.  ((devilswild66 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65452)) \\ Another account: \\ "Felt like there was air in the system, but a few pumps on the pedal and I could ride for a day or two until the pedal got low again". ((vferdman of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=75157&page=3))
         * Spongy brake pedal. ((Hot Rod Sporty of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65452))
         * Complete loss of brake pressure not to be regained.
@@ Line 470: / Line 498: @@
       * The rebuild is an extremely easy job as long as you have a good set of retaining ring pliers. \\ If you loose the retaining ring that holds the master cylinder plunger to the bell crank, it is a 1/4". ((klinesamuel of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65452&page=5))
-|  Pics of the 04+ split primary cup issue. ((photos by devilswild66 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65452))  |||
+|  04+ split primary cup. ((photo by sfxtech of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=75157))  |  M/C rebuild kit (42830-05) ((photo by sfxtech of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=75157))  |
+|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:damaged_rear_m-c_primary_cup_by_sfxtech.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:04_up_m-c_rebuild_kit_by_sfxtech.jpg?direct&300|}}|
+|  More pics of the 04+ split primary cup issue. ((photos by devilswild66 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65452))  |||
 |{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:master_cylinder_torn_primary_cup_1_by_devilswild66.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:master_cylinder_torn_primary_cup_2_by_devilswild66.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:master_cylinder_torn_primary_cup_3_by_devilswild66.jpg?direct&300|}}|