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techtalk:ih:engctl01b [2022/03/31 02:28]
– [Bearing and Support Housing] hippysmack |
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techtalk:ih:engctl01b [2023/12/31 17:55] (current)
– hippysmack |
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| (58-59 XLC and 58-69 XLCH) ((1952-1959 HD Spare Parts Catalog for all Sportster and K Models pg 19)) ((1960-1970 HD Sportster Parts Catalog pg 18)) \\ |
| The magneto produces a high voltage discharge to the spark plug which is timed to each cylinder's compression stroke. \\ |
It also eliminated the need for a battery for ignition. ((doodah man of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/172193-advantages-of-using-a-magneto?t=1844816)) as you can kick start or bump start the bike at about 2-1/2 MPH or less. ((11B40 of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/172193-advantages-of-using-a-magneto/page2?t=1844816&page=2)) \\ |
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| * Components include a single induction coil, a rotating magnet (rotor), a condenser, a circuit breaker and a circuit breaker cam. ((1959-1964 HD Sportster 55 OHV FSM pg 5F-13)) |
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| * (1965-1969) Magneto is mounted on a movable plate allowing for spark timing retard. \\ |
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|Forget all about the marks on the mag. If you keep worring about those marks you will have a permanent limp. Jack up the bike. Pull spark plauge and timing plug. Watch front intake pushrod. As soon as it starts to drop watch timing hole. Rotate slowly untill the advance mark for the front cylinder is centered in the hole. It should be a single vertical line. Now losen the mag bolts slightly and remove the cap. Unhook the wires going to the points. When looking down on the points (like you are sitting on the seat) the narrow lobe should be just to the left of the points rubbing block. Use a multi meter and put one lead on the points where the wires hook to and another to a ground. Set it on ohms so you can read resistance or continuity so you can hear the beep. Now slowly rotate the mag counter clockwise untill the points break continuity and lock it down.As for the points gap, that spec has to be measured on both lobes. They are supposed to be equal. And you set this first before setting the timing. (( bobber58 of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/133235-help-identifying-magneto?t=1430139)) |
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| ====== Mounting Adapters ====== |
**Seal Styles**: ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.php?p=3687617sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/112326-a-photo-catalog-of-ironhead-parts/page17#post3687617post2716068)) \\ |
| * A): a square section rubber ring that gets installed into the cam cover bore under the mount plate. \\ |
| * B): a square section rubber ring that gets installed into the cam cover bore. . \\ An O-ring & washer installs between the top of the mount plate & the bottom of the mag (washer to mag & O-ring to plate). \\ |
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| **Cam Cover to Adapter Gasket**: \\ |
1958-E1965 adapters use gasket (32522-37). ((DR Dick of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/151810-mysterious-oil-leak-59-xlch/page4?t=1637862&page=4)) \\ |
| The parts catalogs say the gasket was available for 1958-1969 XLCH. \\ |
| However, gaskets are known to lose their structural integrity (used on movable mount systems) resulting in the hub working loose from the cover. \\ |
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| Used with magneto (29504-48A). \\ |
| Magneto Adapter (29600-48), Oil Seal (29603-48), Adapter to Crankcase Gasket (32522-37). \\ |
1 pc mount. Mag bolts 'hard' to plate. Timing is fixed because the mag can't move once bolted. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.php?p=3687617sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/112326-a-photo-catalog-of-ironhead-parts/page17#post3687617post2716068)) \\ |
| Mag to plate bolt pattern is at 12:00 & 6:00 (when your sitting on the bike looking down). \\ |
| Special #12-24 slot head screws (29601-48) hold plate to cam cover. Uses 'no tach mag' and SEAL STYLE A. \\ |
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| **L1962-1964**: \\ |
| Used with magneto (29504-48B). \\ |
Magneto Adapter (29600-62), Oil Seal (29603-48), Adapter to Crankcase Gasket (32522-37). ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.php?p=3687617sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/112326-a-photo-catalog-of-ironhead-parts/page17#post3687617post2716068)) \\ |
| 1 pc mount. Mag bolts 'hard' to plate. Timing is fixed because the mag can't move once bolted. \\ |
| Mag to plate bolt pattern is at 2:00 & 8:00. Uses #12-24 x 15/32" countersunk flat slot head screws (1865W) to hold plate to cam cover. \\ |
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| **Adjustable Magneto Adapters**: \\ |
A lot of parts got modified by owners over the years so you could have something that don't match the descriptions below. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/117302-mag-leak-and-front-wheel-speedo?t=1130489)) \\ |
| These are the basics to the OEM moveable mount hubs: \\ |
| Plain hub (no counterbore or slot) = E1965 \\ |
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| Used with magneto (29504-48B). \\ |
| Upper Magneto Adapter (29600-65), Lower Magneto Adapter (29604-65), Oil Seal (29603-48), Adapter to Crankcase Gasket (32522-37). \\ |
The 1st 'movable' setup. 2 pc (ring & hub) mount. Timing screw has a spring over it to hold adjustment (for minor adjustments). ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/117302-mag-leak-and-front-wheel-speedo?pt=3687617#post36876171130489)) \\ |
| Uses tach mag and SEAL STYLE A. Very rare. Uses #12-24 x 15/32" countersunk flat slot head screws (1865W) to hold plate to cam cover. \\ |
| No counterbore in hub. Uses gasket between the mount plate and cover surface. \\ |
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| Used with magneto (29504-48B). \\ |
| Upper Magneto Adapter (29600-65A), Lower Magneto Adapter (29604-65A), O-ring Seal (11101), Mounting Spacer (5944), NO GASKET. \\ |
2 pc (ring & hub) mount. Hub now has a counter bore added on it's top surface to accept an O-ring with a washer on top of O-ring. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/117302-mag-leak-and-front-wheel-speedo?pt=3687617#post36876171130489)) \\ |
| Timing screw has a spring over it to hold adjustment. Uses tach mag and SEAL STYLE B. \\ |
| Uses #12-24 x 15/32" countersunk flat slot head screws (1865W) to hold plate to cam cover. \\ |
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| Used with magneto (29504-48B). \\ |
| Upper Magneto Adapter (29600-65B), Lower Magneto Adapter (29603-67), O-ring Seal (11101), Mounting Spacer (5944), NO GASKET. \\ |
2 pc (ring & hub) mount. Hub now has counterbore and added slot at 12:00 to accept a roll pin that limits the amount of available timing rotation. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/117302-mag-leak-and-front-wheel-speedo?pt=3687617#post36876171130489)) \\ |
| Ring gets drilled at 12:00 for this roll pin to install into. Timing screw has a locknut over it to hold adjustment (only). FSM says no screw. \\ |
| What they meant was no "adjustment" screw. Timing gets set by moving mag to plate position. \\ |
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| Used with magneto (29505-67). \\ |
| Upper Magneto Adapter (29600-65C), Lower Magneto Adapter (29603-67), Lipped Oil Seal (12023), NO GASKET. \\ |
2 pc (ring & hub) mount. Hub is changed again. Still has the slot but the counterbore (introduced in L65) is deleted. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/117302-mag-leak-and-front-wheel-speedo?pt=3687617#post36876171130489)) \\ |
| The pilot extension on the bottom of hub that registers into the cam cover bore is shortened to make room for the real oil seal to fit. \\ |
| Timing screw has a locknut over it to hold adjustment (only). FSM says no screw. What they meant was no 'adjustment' screw. \\ |
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| {{:techtalk:ih:engctl:1962l-1964_xlch_magneto_adapter_plate_29600-62_by_animalhouse2010_pic1.jpg?direct&300|}} {{:techtalk:ih:engctl:1962l-1964_xlch_magneto_adapter_plate_29600-62_by_animalhouse2010_pic2.jpg?direct&300|}} {{:techtalk:ih:engctl:1962l-1964_xlch_magneto_adapter_plate_29600-62_by_animalhouse2010_pic3.jpg?direct&300|}} \\ |
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Adapter pics from Dr Dick. ((httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/117302-mag-leak-and-front-wheel-speedo?pt=3687617#post36876171130489)) \\ |
| | L1965-E1967 upper and lower mag adapters | L1967-E1968 upper and lower mag adapters | 1965-1969 hub dims | |
| |{{:techtalk:ih:engctl:1965l-e1967_xlch_magneto_mounting_plates_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:engctl:1967l-e1968_xlch_magneto_adapters_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:engctl:1965-1969_xlch_upper_magneto_adapter_hub_dims_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}}| |
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| Rotor shaft end (lower) bearing (29563-59) \\ |
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Upper bearing plate differences provided by Dr Dick ((httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/112326-a-photo-catalog-of-ironhead-parts/page26?t=1062720&page=26)) \\ |
| {{:techtalk:ih:engctl:1957-1969_magneto_bearing_supports_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&400|}} \\ |
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| ====== Keyed Mags ====== |
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The key mounted to the magneto locks or unlocks the ground to the system. ((simeli of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/144637-magneto-questions/page4?t=1568843&page=4)) \\ |
When locked, the spark is sent to ground and the bike shuts off. ((brianbbs67 of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/144637-magneto-questions/page3?t=1568843&page=3)) \\ |
| When unlocked, the spark is sent to the mag (removes the ground) and the bike will operate. |
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| Or, no key needed as long as the mag is in the unlocked position. \\ |
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Keys on mags have been known to break, i.e. stuck or worse sending there little metal bits into the mag. ((brianbbs67 of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/144637-magneto-questions/page3?t=1568843&page=3)) \\ |
| However, some run fine with the key. \\ |
Keys can be made / replaced (using the number on the lock) in the case of a broken one. ((hellbilly713 of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/144637-magneto-questions/page4?t=1568843&page=4)) \\ |
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| ====== Solid Mount Magneto ====== |
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| Fairbanks-Morse Magneto (keyed) ((photos by hellbilly713 of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/144637-magneto-questions?t=1568843)) || |
| |{{:techtalk:ih:engctl:magneto_pic_1_by_hellbilly713.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:engctl:magneto_pic_2_by_hellbilly713.jpg?direct&300|}}| |
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| Fairbanks-Morse Magneto ((photo by Locktite of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-electrical/sportster-motorcycle-electrical-and-ignition/110741-id-of-magneto?t=1039993)) | Magneto on a 72 XLCH ((photo by dwightlightnin of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-electrical/sportster-motorcycle-electrical-and-ignition/110741-id-of-magneto?t=1039993)) || |
| |{{:techtalk:ih:engctl:fairbanks-morse_magneto_by_locktite.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:engctl:magneto_pic_1_by_dwightlightnin.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:engctl:magneto_pic_2_by_dwightlightnin.jpg?direct&300|}}| |
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| Magneto on a 77 XLCH ((photos by CourtHouseCustom of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/66193-magneto-ironheads/page4?t=426562&page=4)) ||| |
| |{{:techtalk:ih:engctl:magneto_pic_1_by_courthousecustom.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:engctl:magneto_pic_2_by_courthousecustom.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:engctl:magneto_pic_3_by_courthousecustom.jpg?direct&300|}}| |
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| ====== Adjustable Mount Magneto ====== |
| AKA Retard Mag (Timing is mechanically advanced) \\ |
It's almost like a VOES switch for your mag! ((ryder rick of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/179588-the-retard-advances-animal-mother-fully-unleashed?threadid=1929393)) \\ |
The Morris Auto Advance, uses a small spring under the mag base. ((ironheadjunkie of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/136102-magneto-id?t=1476399)) \\ |
The MM3 uses a bronze ring and a steel base. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/154618-magneto-on-newer-bike/page2?t=1659858&page=2)) \\ |
| The MM2 uses a steel ring and a bronze base. \\ |
| Tighten up the nuts to create a slight drag, retard the spark for starting and the vibration + the spring will advance the unit. \\ |
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| Morris Magneto (MM3) ((photo by FearlessFrisbee of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/136102-magneto-id?t=1476399)) || |
| |{{:techtalk:ih:engctl:retard_mag_1_by_fearlessfrisbee.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:engctl:retard_mag_2_by_fearlessfrisbee.jpg?direct&300|}}| |
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| Keyed magneto on a 69 XLCH ((photoS by DonW of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/136579-mikuni-vm38-branch-manifold-magneto-clearance?t=1482466)) || |
| |{{:techtalk:ih:engctl:retard_mag_with_key_1_by_donw.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:engctl:retard_mag_with_key_2_by_donw.jpg?direct&300|}}| |
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| ===== Timing Advance Spring ===== |
| The spring used is not a heavy one. \\ |
You can use a spring similar the old carb return springs on autos. ((brucstoudt of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/179588-the-retard-advances-animal-mother-fully-unleashed/page2?t=1929393&page=2)) \\ |
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Or a simple coil hook spring: ((Robicycle of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/179588-the-retard-advances-animal-mother-fully-unleashed?t=1929393)) \\ |
| Hooked it to the bolt on the tappet block and the spring hooked to the indent for the coil bolts. \\ |
| Unhook, retard, start, hook it back up. |
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| Makeshift Advance Spring ((photo by snow of the the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/179588-the-retard-advances-animal-mother-fully-unleashed?threadid=1929393)) | |
| |{{:techtalk:ih:engctl:retard_mag_spring_by_snow.jpg?direct&300|}}| |
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| ===== Timing Advance Cable ===== |
You can also attach a choke cable to the primary to control the advance. ((simeli of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/179588-the-retard-advances-animal-mother-fully-unleashed/page2?t=1929393&page=2)) \\ |
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| Or, a twist lock cable setup: |
|Do a search for push-pull controls and look for a locking one. \\ The L-bracket on the case can be fabricated to mount the T-handle cable lock. \\ The arm on the magneto, at the cable connect, is possibly available through a vintage parts supplier or used. \\ The cable is held by a pivot and a set screw. ((photos by kenfused of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.php?p=866088sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/38663-help-getting-69-xlch-started/page3#post801309))|| |
| |{{:techtalk:ih:engctl:mag_cable_1_by_kenfused.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:engctl:mag_cable_2_by_kenfused.jpg?direct&300|}}| |
|
| ====== Various Documentation ====== |
| **Instructions for the Joe Hunt Early Sportster Magneto**: \\ |
Click on a pic to enlarge: ((photos from this post from Chevelle of the XLFORUM httphttps://www.xlforum.net/forumsforum/showthread.phpsportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/131345-early-sportster-magneto-setup-instructions?t=1391033)) \\ |
| {{:techtalk:ih:engctl:ins-magneto-joe_hunt_early_sportster_pic1.jpg?direct&400|}} {{:techtalk:ih:engctl:ins-magneto-joe_hunt_early_sportster_pic2.jpg?direct&400|}} \\ |
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| {{:techtalk:ih:engctl:ins-magneto-joe_hunt_early_sportster_pic3.jpg?direct&400|}} {{:techtalk:ih:engctl:ins-magneto-joe_hunt_early_sportster_pic4.jpg?direct&400|}} \\ |
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| ====== Related Links ====== |
